ETC/GAME EMP/jonb7839,lisas_stuff_too! is now she_wolf626
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:10 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Interesting that the "active" time for this clown keeps get shorter. Here's some relevant numbers:

ETC: Active 27 months**; 1,895 feedback (95.7 ratio)

TGE: Active for seven months; 707 feedback (88.9 ratio)

JonB: Final numbers aren't in yet, but he's only in his fourth month and his feedback appears to have topped out in the high 200s.
...


I'd like to think this thread and the actions of some of the posters herein led to this shortest of reigns for the Moron King....

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:25 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Personally, I agree with a lot of Mike said in his posts and it is actually the hidden message that I have been trying to relay for awhile now, but I did not want it to be viewed as an attack on the members of the board that had bought from him.


Same here, please don't anyone take my rantings personally...

In the long run I don't think banning everyone from your auctions who bought(or at least attempted to buy from him) jonb's auctions would be the solution, but realistically it does make a very clear point. Lets face it, we are all adults here and we all most certainly make our own decisions in life, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of times that even though when you buy from a guy like this you ARE hurting more people than just yourself. Buying from a guy like jonb is not only taking money out of good and legitimate sellers hands, but you are helping to both perpetuate a cycle and continue a scam.


Exactly the point I was trying to make.  Whether or not you got your items, in the long run you were aiding a criminal enterprise and indirectly helping JB cheat others

Jonb's scam is basically a pyramid scam. His scam is not to steal everone's money, he only steals some people's money. To make everyone understand what I mean, look at it this way. If jonb buys a 10 item lot from a seller and lists them all on Ebay, all of which sell, and to make the it simple, say for $10.00 each. He decides to ship 8 of the items that were paid for and not ship 2 of them. He then holds onto those items that he did not ship for another month or 2 and includes them with a different 13 item lot he purchased from a different seller in his next 15 auction listings. These items also sell for $10.00 each, and of that lot that sold and were paid for, he chooses to not ship 3 items. Then from that newer lot of items which he has sold but didnt ship the 3 from, he will then list those items again in another month or 2 down the road, with an even newer lot of 15 items he bought from 3rd seller. This process continues until the negs finally catch up to him and EBay boots him off, only to return another few months down the road under a new user ID and running the same scam.


I think this is actually ascribing too much intelligence to ETC/GE/JB.  I just think his MO is as simple as offer eye popping rares with low opening bids, accumulate enough positive feedback to build up good will, then begin to not ship items and keep the money, all the while stringing along anxious buyers until finally disappearing, to pop back up later selling the same rares to others.  Let's face it, if you didn't frequent this forum and weren't aware of JB's methods, there was very little until last week to let you know he was a crook and a liar.  He strung along buyers just enough so that they didn't file claims until he closed his Paypal account.

Every time you buy an item from jonb you are giving him both more money to purchase more material (to sell or not sell) and you also providing him with more leverage(aka feedback in this circumstance) to end up stealing from someone else who doesn't know anything at all about the jonb7839/ETC/TGEs of the world. By continuing to buy from the jonbs of the world you ARE perpetuating the cycle of theft, so buying from jonb is NOT a victimless crime.


There a million good analogies here.  It all boils down to supporting the lifestyle of a proven criminal through laziness, indifference, greed, convenience, whatever.   The impersonality of the internet helps perpetuate this.  I doubt many of us here would deal with a door to door salesman we knew had cheated several of our neighbors.  Yet we would buy from JB even after his true face has been revealed.

One last thing I wanted to mention that I don't think everyone realizes, and although some of you may not really care at all, the fact of the matter is that this forum is actually read by a lot of people who are not even neccessarily members of the forum (and I mean more than Cougar, Keep, and jonb) . These people who read the forums are interested in this hobby and a lot of times use this forum as a guide to help them with what to buy and what not to buy and also who to deal with and who not to deal with. Over the last couple of months I will bet that I have had at least 7 or 8 people who are not members of the forum, tell me that they read these forums and thanked me and the other members here for keeping them informed of who to buy from and who the hell to stay away from. A majority of the members of this forum represent what is the top of this hobby and a lot of people look to us to provide them guidence and help, so we should be holding ourselves to higher standard when dealing with the jonbs of the world.


Ditto with me Brian, although it was only a couple and not 7 or 8 that PM'ed me to let me know that because of something you or I posted they were not going to deal with JB.  As long as scumbags like this are out there trying to fatten their wallets on unsuspecting gamers, threads like this can serve a real purpose in educating potential buyers.  Hopefully when he pops up again, he will be quickly spotted and driven from Ebay even faster than previous episodes.  
  BTW, thanks to several PMs I have recieved, I can now see how buying from JB is not necessarily an admission of dealing with the enemy, several of you out there had a plan in mind and some very vigilante-like occurances happened that cannot be discussed on an open forum.  I salute you and see how dealing with someone like JB can actually take money out of his pocket behind the scenes...hat's off to you!

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:26 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Part of the problem is that he does have some items that are semi-rare, and the vast majority of collectors do not have the patience it takes to collect smartly. I can't say it enough times; EVERYTHING shows up eventually..


Bingo.  Unless it's an unpublished original manuscript, you will see it again and probably from a much more legitimate, Acaeum member seller that won't take your money and run.

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:36 pm 
 

Reindeergamez wrote:I agree to an extent with what's been said regarding those who've chosen to bid on Jon's stuff.

I personally have made an effort to "go the extra mile" with quick shipping, personal contact, and accurate descriptions on my items. When someone like Jon comes along and screws with buyers, that buyer is going to be ALOT more hesitant to buy from ANYONE on ebay next time. Particularly a couple of weeks ago, Jon looked to have good feedback unless you are looked deep and actually read the weak positives. So maybe JOEDRAGONGUY who got ripped off by jon (Who looked like a good seller) will next time just spend his money locally on what items he can find, instead of buying what he really wants off ebay just out of fear of another supposedly good seller ripping him off.

I also admit to perpetuating the cycle a bit, by having sold him a couple of lots of books, but I did finally see the light and had him blocked from bidding more reciently.

Another thing that saddens me in regards to him are the people that were ripped off that probably don't even realize it, those who bought the common items that he hyped as rare and got the big bids for.


This is a lot of what I said, only better put.  This is the true danger to Ebay sellers like myself, Reindeer, Guido, etc.  A decade before the "Gameguy" fiasco over at alt.frp.marketplace caused many potential customers to completely give up buying online for extended periods of time.  Their money and trust disappeared and to take it a step further, it cost good legitimate merchants like us money out of our pockets.  There are very real consequences in aiding criminal activitiy.
    The other danger of a Jonb is that maybe 1 or 2 scumbags who were merely thinking about such shenanigans might be encouraged by his continual thievery to go into business themselves.  It's hard enough keeping up with one criminal much less a gang of them...

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:01 am 
 

Mike,

Let's suppose he crops up again, and he is positively identified and outed on the forum.

In line with my e-mail, let's then suppose that a dozen or so members buy some of his early items. Within a couple of weeks he could be severely hurt and have the negative feedback that would deter most future buyers.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:54 am 
 

If he pops up again (which is 100% certain), I think much more drastic measures need to be taken.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:12 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Mike,

Let's suppose he crops up again, and he is positively identified and outed on the forum.

In line with my e-mail, let's then suppose that a dozen or so members buy some of his early items. Within a couple of weeks he could be severely hurt and have the negative feedback that would deter most future buyers.


When he's positively identified again, I think what you proposed will be a pretty good path to follow. Against 99% of bad sellers I wouldnt' recomend or participate in such vigilante actions, but in this case the offender is such a unrepentant fool that I'll get with you at that time to possibly join forces, or stagger attacks.  Hopefully he'll leave the business after a few atom bombs dropped on his pumpkin head.

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:17 am 
 

Badmike wrote:When he's positively identified again, I think what you proposed will be a pretty good path to follow. Against 99% of bad sellers I wouldnt' recomend or participate in such vigilante actions, but in this case the offender is such a unrepentant fool that I'll get with you at that time to possibly join forces, or stagger attacks. Hopefully he'll leave the business after a few atom bombs dropped on his pumpkin head.

Mike B.

I have received similar support from other parties. If we could get a dozen or so hits it will hurt. I am mindful of his lurking on this board, and he knows most of our eBay handles.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:05 am 
 

I'm sure he does not know my ebay handle.  Just let me know what I can do to help out.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:01 pm 
 

Drop me a line also, I've got another ebay handle that I use to buy Non-gaming items with (stuff for the kid and house etc) so it's not known in these circles.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:23 pm 
 

I have a second Account as well.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:34 pm 
 

Creating an eBay account for this purpose wouldn't be hard either, until he blocks low-FB bidders, *then* switch to the higher-FB accounts ;)

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:53 pm 
 

Count me in. I have another ebay handle that could take a neg in the name of justice.  8)

  


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:04 pm 
 

I'm in...with a second account...just for this type of thing.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:40 pm 
 

seeyouinescrow wrote:I'm in...with a second account...just for this type of thing.


i know a few ppl who would gladly involve themselves in this kinda thing. anything in the cause of justice.

o course i wouldnt have anything to do with it.... ***looks around innocently***

:twisted:

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:52 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
seeyouinescrow wrote:I'm in...with a second account...just for this type of thing.


i know a few ppl who would gladly involve themselves in this kinda thing. anything in the cause of justice.

o course i wouldnt have anything to do with it.... ***looks around innocently***

:twisted:

Al


I havn't been out to Virgina for awhile.....



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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:15 pm 
 

muaddib5 wrote:I havn't been out to Virgina for awhile.....


:roll:

If folks really want to do something serious about him, go talk to the FBI about it. Mail fraud isn't treated lightly.

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:20 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:
muaddib5 wrote:I havn't been out to Virgina for awhile.....


:roll:

If folks really want to do something serious about him, go talk to the FBI about it. Mail fraud isn't treated lightly.


This is small potatos for a federal agency.  If we could locate exactly where he is in Virgina, contacting the local district attorney and law enforcement agency might be a better way to go.



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Post Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:11 am 
 

GraysonAC wrote:
muaddib5 wrote:I havn't been out to Virgina for awhile.....


:roll:

If folks really want to do something serious about him, go talk to the FBI about it. Mail fraud isn't treated lightly.


Mail fraud is a good nasty to hit someone with, but the problem is that there is typically a threshold of activity (i.e. ripped off parties) that must be documented before action is taken.  The problem with this happening on Ebay is a coordination of complaining parties leading to action.  If you could ever get enough people to all file a complaint, it might trigger actions....thenumber of complaintaints for Texas used to be 20, but that was years ago  so it may be much higher now.

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:25 am 
 

Badmike wrote:Mail fraud is a good nasty to hit someone with, but the problem is that there is typically a threshold of activity (i.e. ripped off parties) that must be documented before action is taken. The problem with this happening on Ebay is a coordination of complaining parties leading to action. If you could ever get enough people to all file a complaint, it might trigger actions....thenumber of complaintaints for Texas used to be 20, but that was years ago so it may be much higher now.

MIke B.


Well, as I said, if someone is serious about it, then there's all sorts of folks that left negatives for jonb.

Squashing him once he starts up again is all well and good, and I'll be happy to help out with that, but that doesn't do him any signifigant harm. No justice there.

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