bclarkie wrote:.....so buying from jonb is NOT a victimless crime.
bclarkie wrote:Well it is official, jonb7839 is now: No longer a registered user eBay Feedback Profile for jonb7839The question is how long before he shows up again? My guess will probably be around November, so keep an eye out.
Deadlord36 wrote:Part of the problem is that he does have some items that are semi-rare, and the vast majority of collectors do not have the patience it takes to collect smartly. I can't say it enough times; EVERYTHING shows up eventually.I have to admit, I bought the GM3 from jonb in the hopes that he wouldn't ship it. I didn't need it. But I was either one of the 8 out of 10, or he read the forum, because it arrived fairly quickly and in excellent shape. I did not leave feedback, however.
Xaxaxe wrote:Aside: Mike, good posts on the subect. I'm not sure I totally agree with everything (I'm a big "free will" guy), but I read every word and you've raised some interesting points that I need to think about more seriously than I have in the past.
Xaxaxe wrote:Interesting that the "active" time for this clown keeps get shorter. Here's some relevant numbers:ETC: Active 27 months**; 1,895 feedback (95.7 ratio)TGE: Active for seven months; 707 feedback (88.9 ratio)JonB: Final numbers aren't in yet, but he's only in his fourth month and his feedback appears to have topped out in the high 200s....
bclarkie wrote:Personally, I agree with a lot of Mike said in his posts and it is actually the hidden message that I have been trying to relay for awhile now, but I did not want it to be viewed as an attack on the members of the board that had bought from him. Same here, please don't anyone take my rantings personally...In the long run I don't think banning everyone from your auctions who bought(or at least attempted to buy from him) jonb's auctions would be the solution, but realistically it does make a very clear point. Lets face it, we are all adults here and we all most certainly make our own decisions in life, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of times that even though when you buy from a guy like this you ARE hurting more people than just yourself. Buying from a guy like jonb is not only taking money out of good and legitimate sellers hands, but you are helping to both perpetuate a cycle and continue a scam. Exactly the point I was trying to make. Whether or not you got your items, in the long run you were aiding a criminal enterprise and indirectly helping JB cheat othersJonb's scam is basically a pyramid scam. His scam is not to steal everone's money, he only steals some people's money. To make everyone understand what I mean, look at it this way. If jonb buys a 10 item lot from a seller and lists them all on Ebay, all of which sell, and to make the it simple, say for $10.00 each. He decides to ship 8 of the items that were paid for and not ship 2 of them. He then holds onto those items that he did not ship for another month or 2 and includes them with a different 13 item lot he purchased from a different seller in his next 15 auction listings. These items also sell for $10.00 each, and of that lot that sold and were paid for, he chooses to not ship 3 items. Then from that newer lot of items which he has sold but didnt ship the 3 from, he will then list those items again in another month or 2 down the road, with an even newer lot of 15 items he bought from 3rd seller. This process continues until the negs finally catch up to him and EBay boots him off, only to return another few months down the road under a new user ID and running the same scam.I think this is actually ascribing too much intelligence to ETC/GE/JB. I just think his MO is as simple as offer eye popping rares with low opening bids, accumulate enough positive feedback to build up good will, then begin to not ship items and keep the money, all the while stringing along anxious buyers until finally disappearing, to pop back up later selling the same rares to others. Let's face it, if you didn't frequent this forum and weren't aware of JB's methods, there was very little until last week to let you know he was a crook and a liar. He strung along buyers just enough so that they didn't file claims until he closed his Paypal account.Every time you buy an item from jonb you are giving him both more money to purchase more material (to sell or not sell) and you also providing him with more leverage(aka feedback in this circumstance) to end up stealing from someone else who doesn't know anything at all about the jonb7839/ETC/TGEs of the world. By continuing to buy from the jonbs of the world you ARE perpetuating the cycle of theft, so buying from jonb is NOT a victimless crime.There a million good analogies here. It all boils down to supporting the lifestyle of a proven criminal through laziness, indifference, greed, convenience, whatever. The impersonality of the internet helps perpetuate this. I doubt many of us here would deal with a door to door salesman we knew had cheated several of our neighbors. Yet we would buy from JB even after his true face has been revealed.One last thing I wanted to mention that I don't think everyone realizes, and although some of you may not really care at all, the fact of the matter is that this forum is actually read by a lot of people who are not even neccessarily members of the forum (and I mean more than Cougar, Keep, and jonb) . These people who read the forums are interested in this hobby and a lot of times use this forum as a guide to help them with what to buy and what not to buy and also who to deal with and who not to deal with. Over the last couple of months I will bet that I have had at least 7 or 8 people who are not members of the forum, tell me that they read these forums and thanked me and the other members here for keeping them informed of who to buy from and who the hell to stay away from. A majority of the members of this forum represent what is the top of this hobby and a lot of people look to us to provide them guidence and help, so we should be holding ourselves to higher standard when dealing with the jonbs of the world.
Personally, I agree with a lot of Mike said in his posts and it is actually the hidden message that I have been trying to relay for awhile now, but I did not want it to be viewed as an attack on the members of the board that had bought from him.
In the long run I don't think banning everyone from your auctions who bought(or at least attempted to buy from him) jonb's auctions would be the solution, but realistically it does make a very clear point. Lets face it, we are all adults here and we all most certainly make our own decisions in life, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of times that even though when you buy from a guy like this you ARE hurting more people than just yourself. Buying from a guy like jonb is not only taking money out of good and legitimate sellers hands, but you are helping to both perpetuate a cycle and continue a scam.
Jonb's scam is basically a pyramid scam. His scam is not to steal everone's money, he only steals some people's money. To make everyone understand what I mean, look at it this way. If jonb buys a 10 item lot from a seller and lists them all on Ebay, all of which sell, and to make the it simple, say for $10.00 each. He decides to ship 8 of the items that were paid for and not ship 2 of them. He then holds onto those items that he did not ship for another month or 2 and includes them with a different 13 item lot he purchased from a different seller in his next 15 auction listings. These items also sell for $10.00 each, and of that lot that sold and were paid for, he chooses to not ship 3 items. Then from that newer lot of items which he has sold but didnt ship the 3 from, he will then list those items again in another month or 2 down the road, with an even newer lot of 15 items he bought from 3rd seller. This process continues until the negs finally catch up to him and EBay boots him off, only to return another few months down the road under a new user ID and running the same scam.
Every time you buy an item from jonb you are giving him both more money to purchase more material (to sell or not sell) and you also providing him with more leverage(aka feedback in this circumstance) to end up stealing from someone else who doesn't know anything at all about the jonb7839/ETC/TGEs of the world. By continuing to buy from the jonbs of the world you ARE perpetuating the cycle of theft, so buying from jonb is NOT a victimless crime.
One last thing I wanted to mention that I don't think everyone realizes, and although some of you may not really care at all, the fact of the matter is that this forum is actually read by a lot of people who are not even neccessarily members of the forum (and I mean more than Cougar, Keep, and jonb) . These people who read the forums are interested in this hobby and a lot of times use this forum as a guide to help them with what to buy and what not to buy and also who to deal with and who not to deal with. Over the last couple of months I will bet that I have had at least 7 or 8 people who are not members of the forum, tell me that they read these forums and thanked me and the other members here for keeping them informed of who to buy from and who the hell to stay away from. A majority of the members of this forum represent what is the top of this hobby and a lot of people look to us to provide them guidence and help, so we should be holding ourselves to higher standard when dealing with the jonbs of the world.
Deadlord36 wrote:Part of the problem is that he does have some items that are semi-rare, and the vast majority of collectors do not have the patience it takes to collect smartly. I can't say it enough times; EVERYTHING shows up eventually..
Reindeergamez wrote:I agree to an extent with what's been said regarding those who've chosen to bid on Jon's stuff. I personally have made an effort to "go the extra mile" with quick shipping, personal contact, and accurate descriptions on my items. When someone like Jon comes along and screws with buyers, that buyer is going to be ALOT more hesitant to buy from ANYONE on ebay next time. Particularly a couple of weeks ago, Jon looked to have good feedback unless you are looked deep and actually read the weak positives. So maybe JOEDRAGONGUY who got ripped off by jon (Who looked like a good seller) will next time just spend his money locally on what items he can find, instead of buying what he really wants off ebay just out of fear of another supposedly good seller ripping him off.I also admit to perpetuating the cycle a bit, by having sold him a couple of lots of books, but I did finally see the light and had him blocked from bidding more reciently.Another thing that saddens me in regards to him are the people that were ripped off that probably don't even realize it, those who bought the common items that he hyped as rare and got the big bids for.
mbassoc2003 wrote:Mike,Let's suppose he crops up again, and he is positively identified and outed on the forum.In line with my e-mail, let's then suppose that a dozen or so members buy some of his early items. Within a couple of weeks he could be severely hurt and have the negative feedback that would deter most future buyers.
Badmike wrote:When he's positively identified again, I think what you proposed will be a pretty good path to follow. Against 99% of bad sellers I wouldnt' recomend or participate in such vigilante actions, but in this case the offender is such a unrepentant fool that I'll get with you at that time to possibly join forces, or stagger attacks. Hopefully he'll leave the business after a few atom bombs dropped on his pumpkin head.Mike B.