ETC/GAME EMP/jonb7839,lisas_stuff_too! is now she_wolf626
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:02 am 
 

Badmike wrote:Has he contacted you about paying yet?

Mike B.


Nope. I'm going to just wait. If he wants to try to open a NPB claim against me, we'll see where it goes. Otherwise, I'll hopefully stay under the radar, and not have to worry about any Neg.  (Although if he does Neg me, I'll use the RL name trick)

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:35 pm 
 

I really hate Eastern Treasure Chest - he was responsible for my single non-positive feedback (neutral).  Fvcker w/ his damn retaliatory feedback.  I remember a thread here about whether sellers should leave immediate feedback for buyers...


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:32 am 
 

shadzar wrote:eBay should instate a policy where the seller can NOT GET feedback until after they have left feedback for his/her buyer.


Sorry, I'm never a big fan of picking on the new guy, but ... well ... I'll apologize in advance: I'm going to make an exception here.

eBay does not use a "seller-then-buyer" feedback system for one very good reason: it would be incredibly stupid. Like, galactically stupid. A hard-and-fast "first step, second step" rule — and it doesn't matter who goes first, it's the same either way — puts all of the power into the court of whoever goes second. That should be blatantly obvious.

Plus, taken to the extreme, this suggestion would eventually lead to big trouble for eBay. Sellers would be falling all over themselves trying to flee from a venue wherein they felt they had no control over their reputations. And who drives eBay and eBay's profits? Hint: it's not the buyers. It's sellers who pay insertion fees and final-value fees (not to mention PayPal fees) directly to eBay every month, while buyers are charged not a single penny, ever. No sellers = no profits = no eBay (or a drastically altered eBay landscape, at the very least).

shadzar wrote:it solves several things

Actually, it solves nothing. Except to make a questionable system even worse.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:58 am 
 

Yo, Shad, first thing: we're off-topic here. This is four posts in a row (including this one) that have nothing to do with ETC/GE/JonB. I'm going to respond to a couple of your points, but I'm going to keep it short and then I'm done. You really should consider starting a new thread. Call it "My Extensive eBay Expertise" or something ...

+++++

shadzar wrote:well i may be new here, but have been using eBay for 6 years.

So you would be the "Shadzar" who is listed as having 4 years, 10 months of service (tsk, tsk, not six years), a 129 feedback score, and a 98.5-percent positive/non-positive ratio? Well, my man, there's no other way to put it: I'm totally unimpressed.

shadzar wrote:but there is too much retaliatory feedback left by lazy ass sellers

Right. And no unjustified feedback is EVER left from buyers. Jesus. :roll:  

shadzar wrote:i will note your name to add to my eBay block list

Good luck with that — Xaxaxe is not my eBay user name.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:59 am 
 

shadzar wrote:sorry i posted here at all since i know nothing of the seller, and am apparently ignorant of eBay since i dont have much to sell there, or have millions of dollars to spend there. blame GW for sending me a cease and desist order for trying to sell the $5000 worth of their products on eBay, and they didnt like that i was selling them brand new at lower than the price cap they have and try to hide. :roll:


nobody is trying to start a fight over this chummer. this is a thread in relation to one specific thing in its multitude of forms ie. the eastern treasure chest. its easy enough to open a new thread called, say, "feedback discussion" or something? no biggie really.

however though, if you try and impress an opinion, you will always get others replying in kind, depending on how strong that opinion is. after all, this IS a discussion forum is it not? just not on this thread :D

fwiw and this will finish this point off: i buy AND sell on ebay. this ID is my ebay ID and i have nothing to hide. some like me, some don't...fair do....life would be boring if it was all one way. i take pride in what i do and i always leave feedback first as a seller, always leaving myself open, UNLESS i know the buyer is trouble, in which case i will wait and see if he/she is fair in what they say. i will not just leave retaliatory feedback just for the sake of it, cos thats bad form. some ppl do not have the same morals but thats their problem and as a buyer, i won't leave feedback (well mostly unless i am feeling kind) unless the seller does first. that was the way it was meant to be and until it changes it should be that way.

i think retaliatory feedback is something even my 7 year old daughter would think childish, but hey there ya go :D

this is a good forum full of decent folk, so lets try and keep the discussion within that eh? any mud-slinging can be done via PM surely? unless it IS interesting to everyone else of course :D

life really is too short to fight....

Al



  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:19 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:no biggie really.


I agree, Al — it's really no biggie. New thread or old thread, these things always tend to sort themselves out.

However, one reason I brought it up: as far as this particular thread goes, I have a lot of respect for the research that Clarkie and others have done to smoke this guy out of the woodwork. JonB is a complete menace and an unparalleled liar, and I don't want to distract from those facts. I figured if Shad and I kept lobbing broadsides at each other — fun as that might be :lol: — the hard work that originated this thread could be side-tracked.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:31 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote: I have a lot of respect for the research that Clarkie and others have done to smoke this guy out of the woodwork. JonB is a complete menace and an unparalleled liar, and I don't want to distract from those facts. I figured if Shad and I kept lobbing broadsides at each other — fun as that might be :lol: — the hard work that originated this thread could be side-tracked.


thats exactly it. we need to try and make sure everyone is safe from little shits like this as much as we can and i agree, this thread needs to be directed at doing just that, and nothing else.

good man!

Al



  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:46 am 
 

shadzar wrote:well i may be new here, but have been using eBay for 6 years.

and the seller leaving feedback first is simple and understandble once you realize the the seller if the first party to ever GET their part of the transaction.

so they automatically have the first honest chance to leave feedback.
ie they dont get payment they they leave negative feedback. they do get payment then they leave positive.

all the system allows for by allowing a seller to leave feedback later is retaliatory feedback from sellers who scam honest people.

i mean come on think about it. i ALWAYS leave feedback to my buyers if/when i get the payment. and them procede to ship the item.

then as a seller my part is over and done with, unless the item doesnt arrive in the correct time which after a week if i havent gotten feedback from the buyer i send them a message asking if they got it, to leave feedback, if not i provide them with the USPS or UPS tracking number so we can both try to find the package.

when the buyer gets the item they can leave feedback based on item description, seller responsibilty such aas answereing question regaring the auction in a timely manner. shipping the item in a timely manner, etc.

but there is too much retaliatory feedback left by lazy ass sellers who think that cause they have your money including priority or express mail charges, that they can wait 2 weeks to send out the item(s).

WRONG! that defeats the purpose of express or priority mail, meaning i want it now. and the seller SHOULD get negative feedback for being lazy or irresponsible. and the buyer should get attacked for it when they sent the payment and had to wait on a lazy seller.

i will note your name to add to my eBay block list just to be safe as you seem to be one who might think holding a money order for it to clear is logistically sound. when in fact you can cash them AT the post office when you mail the package. you just seem that kind of person to not be able to understand why forcing a seller to leave feedback first in order to get it is a good idea.

if ONLY it prevents bad sellers then eBay would be 500% better and safer place. (but eBay doesnt understand or care either cause they are just out to get people money also and dont care what happens to them.)


Sorry to drag this on everyone, but I have a great example to give to Shad about seller feedback. For years I have been on eBay. My feedbacks are somewhere in the 1900's or so and ALL were positive until recently. I sold a rather hard to find game to a (and I use this term loosely) gentleman on eBay.  He paid, I left positive feedback and shipped the item. He gets it and e-mails me claiming it smells sooooo badly of smoke it is making him sick, he tells me he will accept a 15% return of money for my mistake of not noting this in the listing. Now having sold 10+ other games that were in the same box and never having any other person comment on a smell made me wonder. I then had my wife, who has a nose like a bloodhound smell another game not yet shipped that has been in the same box for 15+ years. She smelled nothing so I e-mailed him and said, okay send it back, I will refund you 100% and pay the return shipping. He replied that he really wanted the game so he does not want to send it back, BUT since I was kind enough to offer him a full refund he will only give me a neutral feedback. That neutral feedback is the only non-positive in a heck of a lot of auctions and besmirches my reputation greatly. Back to the topic.... since I had previously left him positive feedback upon payment I am not stuck. He paid over $50 for a rare game and then tried to hold my feedback hostage to get money back from me. Since then my wife and I do not leave positive feedback for anyone until they do so. Believe me, I would prefer to leave positve feedback for buyers when they pay, but this loser forced us to change our methods. I am sure every other person here who sells stuff has had a similar experience. The entire feedback system is a good thing when used properly but in the case above is can also be used in a very bad way.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:59 am 
 

I buy and sell on ebay as well.  I couldnt give a rats ass about feedback.

Its been proven time and time again that regardless of ones feedback if you have something someone wants theyll bid on it.

Im always late giving feedback, although for ebayers that have only a few under their belt I usually try to give their's right away.

If I buy something and I receive some super ridiculous shipping charge, guess what leave all the negatives you want, that seller isnt getting my money.

money > feedback.

Amazingly enough after 3 years I have one neutral and one negative feedback.  Both from people that were in the wrong.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:10 am 
 

pleveich wrote:He paid over $50 for a rare game and then tried to hold my feedback hostage to get money back from me. Since then my wife and I do not leave positive feedback for anyone until they do so. Believe me, I would prefer to leave positve feedback for buyers when they pay, but this loser forced us to change our methods. I am sure every other person here who sells stuff has had a similar experience. The entire feedback system is a good thing when used properly but in the case above is can also be used in a very bad way.

John Pleveich


Post a reply to his feedback in your feedback forum and his, saying 'Thanks for the comment, David (or whatever his name is). I have offered a full refund.

eBay will send you an automated response saying that the feedback violates eBay policy and they realise you may not be aware of this so you can review the policy at page http;//xxxxxx.

They will then delete the entire feedback entry for the whole item (as if the transaction never occurred). Hey presto, you have a clean record again.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:32 am 
 

Post a reply to his feedback in your feedback forum and his, saying 'Thanks for the comment, David (or whatever his name is). I have offered a full refund.

eBay will send you an automated response saying that the feedback violates eBay policy and they realise you may not be aware of this so you can review the policy at page http;//xxxxxx.

They will then delete the entire feedback entry for the whole item (as if the transaction never occurred). Hey presto, you have a clean record again.[/quote]

I think I will do that.  Does it wipe off the feedback history of that transaction as well? My wife is going to love that. You should have seen the e-mail she was going to send this guy  :evil: . Luckily calmer heads prevailed.

John

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:42 pm 
 

The item is removed from both yours and the buyer's feedback pages. No further feedback on that item is possible after eBay has removed it.

It does require that the buyer notice that you have posted his name and ask for it to be removed, which more often than not he will.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:44 pm 
 

SWEET!!!! You just made friends for life in my wife and I!

Thanx, John

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 pm 
 

shadzar wrote:i mean come on think about it. i ALWAYS leave feedback to my buyers if/when i get the payment. and them procede to ship the item.


I know, off-topic, but this really needs to be addressed.

On eBay, buyers have all the power, if they choose to use it. The only real threat I can make against deadbeat buyers is negative feedback. 99% of my business is done through PP, and anyone that pays me through PP using their CC, can, at any time and without cause, get their money back. As a seller, I have absolutely no protection against that. Even paying through PP through their balance, buyers win almost every single "Item was not as described" claim, because the onus is on the seller to prove it wasn't. I kid you not, and if you don't believe me, I direct you to the Paypal forum on eBay - you'll find plenty of horror stories there from sellers.

I do a ton of buying, and a ton of selling (~300 feedback in the last month). I don't give feedback first as a seller, ever. As a buyer, I give feedback once I've received my item, and checked to make sure everything is in order. As a seller, I use an automated system to leave positive feedback as soon as I receive positive.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:20 pm 
 

GraysonAC wrote:
Badmike wrote:Has he contacted you about paying yet?

Mike B.


Nope. I'm going to just wait. If he wants to try to open a NPB claim against me, we'll see where it goes. Otherwise, I'll hopefully stay under the radar, and not have to worry about any Neg. (Although if he does Neg me, I'll use the RL name trick)


Anyone who has bid on his items, in a little over 8 hours Jon wont' have any more items up on ebay (his last two auctions will end).  You might want to wait a bit and see if he's still alive enough to list anything, otherwise you might be off the hook. These might just be the death throes.

Mike B.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:32 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Anyone who has bid on his items, in a little over 8 hours Jon wont' have any more items up on ebay (his last two auctions will end). You might want to wait a bit and see if he's still alive enough to list anything, otherwise you might be off the hook. These might just be the death throes.


I was thinking the same thing. JonB has been strangely inactive this week. He hasn't even bothered to give retaliatory FB for his recent negatives.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:39 pm 
 

shadowfax17 wrote:I was thinking the same thing. JonB has been strangely inactive this week. He hasn't even bothered to give retaliatory FB for his recent negatives.


maybe there has been another death in the family? :D



  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:42 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
shadowfax17 wrote:I was thinking the same thing. JonB has been strangely inactive this week. He hasn't even bothered to give retaliatory FB for his recent negatives.


maybe there has been another death in the family? :D


Either that or maybe somebody quit talking about it and actually made the trip to Virginia. :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:47 pm 
 

Jon is laughing all the way to the bank with this auction.



If the buyer had just done a search, I'm sure he could have saved himself $25.

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 5192123482

  
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