The only evidence that 1a exists is the mention of it by PK and possibly the coverscan on Afterglo (although I suspect the Afterglo cover scan is a ringer).

I linked Pete directly to scan on afterglo's site. He has stated that WW never produced that item. fwiw...

Pete Kerestan wrote:I looked at the pictures you linked to and yes the black cover and yellow cover were among thefirst efforts back in 1975 but I don't remember ever doing a spiral bound for sale.  My wife's cousin had a print shop and we did the first ones on his press then I drove them to different hobby shops and sold them from the trunk of my car.  A year later I picked up a small press and started doing all the printing in my game shop in San Louis Obispio CA.  Brad (Morno) came up from LA and I set him up with a place to live and he came down to the shop as well as he worked on art for the products.

I also include other comments behind comment on Afterglo's link that might be helpful in some respect on other stuff.


His comments on confusing 1975 with 76...

Pete Kerestan wrote:I have been looking over stuff from back then and found I made a mistake on my dates.  I got out of the service Feb of 76, for some reason I kept thinking it was 75, but my 214 shows 76.

I understood that to mean that he was trying to sell the version he just sold off to A2Jeff without luck originally rather than a specific prepub or such. So he put the black folder on them and they took off but the success probably had more to do with the growing interest in D&D at the time, IMO.

Kinda rolling around to the original sequence as represented on site here. Minus tiny differences between existing copies.

Adam Shultz wrote:I understood that to mean that he was trying to sell the version he just sold off to A2Jeff.

At present that copy cannot be shown to be any different to a standard yellow scrollwork cover ziploc (June 1976 or later), unless Jeff can find some constant printing difference which might show that the white pages are "earlier" than any of the others seen included in other copies thus far

(pretty much all the points tie back to observations of actual copies or comments from Pete (+ friend) that haven't been discarded. Any text emphasis in quotations is mine)


0/a. (originally stated as 1974 by Jeff). On revision (1975) perhaps.
White pages only. Stated to have been prior to the one year "gap" ending Jan/Feb 1976 (not 1975). Stated to have been bagged and shipped to TSR prior to(?) May 1976. Possibly impossible to distinguish from later copies minus the other components? May not exist. None seen.
[2-way/4-way alignment points would also rule out 1974 and early 1975, if confirmed. Jeff, whilst you're browsing through perhaps? ]
[However, "My first run on the AB Dick 360 printing press I had picked up was used to remake the inside pages on this item over Xmas leave in 74 (actually 1975?) and the cover was used starting in 75 (actually Feb 1976) with the shop opening" indicates a separate run. This is one of the hooks that made me run with the auction to such a degree, first time around]

0/b. White pages only. (Printed early 1976?) Possibly more than one print run owing to problems with equipment. Possibly double-sided and single-sided already at this stage. (Not impossible to believe late 1975, in which case would that not be 0a?). White pages only? Unsure if may have had a white cover sheet or not? ("the cover was used starting in 75 (actually Feb 1976) with the shop opening" combined with "sent... to TSR... a white copy of Brads cover art as well as a black folder copy". Can now discard the previous statement re. yellow cover sheet added to copy for shop opening, since that's dated June 1976 on the reverse).
Stated to have been sold locally. Could just have easily been the one Jeff bagged and shipped to TSR prior to(?) May 1976.
May be impossible to distinguish from later copies when stripped of their other components? None seen.

[Black folder printed prior to(?) May 1976 or before and sent to TSR prior to(?) May 1976]
[White copy of Morno scrollwork title/cover sheet sent to TSR prior to(?) May 1976 (still a query as to why this is dated 1975-76 if it wasn't actually used until much later... unless white copies do also exist with 0b. Possible significance of duplication of first part of "this kit contains" text with first white sheet uncertain although that does also hint at the possibility of an earlier flavor without the title/cover sheet)]

0/c. Black folder. Would have no reference to TSR distribution. May or may not have a scrollwork title sheet (more likely that it would, given cumulative indications). However, still uncertain as to whether black folder was actually used prior to TSR deal because, thus far, None seen.

1/x. Black folder. (June 1976) TSR distribution sheet. May or may not have had a fresh run of white sheets (although more likely carried forward from 0/x). Double sided or single sided may still reflect printing problems. May or may not have a separate scrollwork title sheet (yellow-orange, not bright yellow?). All maps two-tone grey grid?? Some copies with photocopied replacement sheets. $3.50 noted on partly customised original polybag with one copy.
Lack of scrollwork title sheet in some copies may be due to loss (less likely given two copies noted thus far which are otherwise fine?), that the scrollwork sheet was created later (unlikely given the cumulative evidence above), that they ran out of sheets (perhaps more likely) or that it wasn't deemed necessary to begin with, when the "foldered" release was created (*tries to remember if that "background" section is contained elsewhere on the white sheets*). Known to exist.

["When I ran out of the folder run the switch was made to this poly bagged version then over to the booklet when the printer took over"]
[Combined cover/title/distribution sheet on 2/x appears to be the same bright yellow as 3/x, as opposed to yellow-orange on 1/x, although no-one has all three to compare against, afaik...???]
[Early reviews/ads indicate black folder where format is noted]
[Black folder stated to have been sent to TSR prior to(?) May 1976, so did exist at the point, above]

2/x. Yellow scrollwork cover, polybagged. (no earlier than June 1976). Cover/title sheet combined with distribution sheet on single bright yellow page. May be double sided or single sided. All maps two-tone grey grid?? (Copies known with $3.50?). Known to exist.

[If copies of 2/x are known with $3.50, creating and adding in an expensively produced black folder and for no extra charge would be an interesting way to run business, given not a cent has been received from TSR]

(3/x lifting some comments from Ian's descriptions. Haven't been able to follow that print fully and haven't read back through that discussion yet).

3/a. Yellow castle cover. Ziplock. Distributed TSR. "Poor quality two tone grey grid present but broken in places" (?)

3/b. ? did we not have ones with missing grid (toymom copy, but is this not known to have been distributed by anyone in particular?)

[latest date for any official "circulated by TSR" copy = mid-autumn 1977(?) from combined evidence of OD&D supplements (does anyone has a 7/77 supplement??), GW ad, etc.]

3/c. Distributed via Zocchi? (?late 1977)
[Games Workshop ad indicates PotVQ eventually obtained via Zocchi after an extended period, but before Character Archaic was available again direct from Pete. Unknown how this reflects the actual situation in the U.S.]

3/b, 3/c dates interchangeable, perhaps? Insufficient data... Need to check for any other 'zine refs, etc. (Not possible to rule out that TSR may have printed copies "3/b"(?) after end of deal).
[ed.: $5 price tag on the toymom copy (store in Yakima) is actually more than the price stated in the (last?) WW digest pubs. (=$4.50). Local markup/whatever? Unsure what to make of this...]


=
Will have to read back through everything again at some point, since it's certain I've missed a few obvious points.
Is there any hard evidence that could be used to affect this sequence in any major or minor way?

Given the apparently shared internal pages and difficulty in determining whether a component item has just been discarded, I'd still be fairly happy to see 0/c thru 2/x rolled into a single "with/without folder" for the time being. In which case, 0/b may require re-evaluation if a white cover/title sheet copy comes up and 0/a if a copy with earlier text or printing points "prior to remake" appears. Both those would be preferred with good provenance, IMHO (certainly to a similar degree of proof required for an OD&D set to be declared a dated "prepub" even though the box labels may have been loose simply because it was an un-assembled staff copy of indeterminate date).

All comments/thoughts/grammatical errors 02 cents, only.

Picture comparisions of the House Copy in Polybag to the Black Folder copy:

Black Folder Cover


Polybag Cover (this is lighter yellow than the more orange yellow cover on the Black Folder version)


Level 1 encounters Black Folder


Level 1 encounters Polybag


Level 1 map Black Folder


Level 1 map Polybag


Level 1 players map Black Folder


Level 1 players map Polybag


No real differences that I could see except generally a stronger/purer black in the Folder version and slight/faint lines around the cover artwork plates on the left hand side of the Folder version.

Anyone have a carbon dating machine?

I would have expected to see the grey grid in the black folder version maps!? Is the grey grid missing in your black folder version of PoVQ?

Yes, the gray grid is definitely there on the folder version....see page 2 where I have a few other pics that were taken with my digital camera vs. the scanner.

Setting aside the finer details of the dates and printings for a moment, this is the over-arching scenario that makes sense to me.

Production begins with:  white title page, no scrollwork, polybagged.  Very simple.  Doesn't catch much attention.

Next:  white title page, scrollwork, polybagged.  Timing perhaps coinciding with Brad getting set up in Pete's shop.  Still doesn't attract much in the way of attention/sales.  Need to ramp up the packaging.

Next:  yellow title page, scrollwork, bagged.  

Very soon afterward:  production of the black folders begins.  Some of the black folders are stuffed with the leftover sets that have a white title page without scrollwork, some are stuffed with the leftover sets that have a white title page with scrollwork, and the rest are stuffed with the newly-printed sets with yellow title page with scrollwork.  Sales pick up.

So it goes from there to the bagged castle printing and finally the digest printing.  The regression to a polybagged version (with the yellow castle cover) may have been motivated by deteriorating relations with TSR and resultant tightening of funds.  On the other hand, wouldn't the digest printing have been more expensive than the yellow castle baggy version?

I see the evolution of the module as driven by the need to increase visibility and shelf appeal.  From white, plain; to white, scrolled; to yellow, scrolled; to all of that plus black folders (re-packaging un-sold, early printings).

Any thoughts?

I thought David's chronology was on track, that the black folder predates any kind of yellow sheet, as described earlier:

Pete Kerestan wrote:
The product itself was first put out in a plastic bag with just a plain sheet front. They didn't sell to the hobby shops in LA at all well. I took the next step and had a black cover made up by my wife's cousin who had a print shop.

Am I missing something?

(referring to tfm's post above):

Good point, but I guess the question is what is meant by "plain sheet front"?

Could that refer simply to a lack of an illustration (castle), lack of scrollwork, or lack of cover (folder)?

Maybe I'm reading more into it than I should, but "plain sheet front" reads differently to me than would "plain front sheet".

Do we have any more info from Pete on that point?