Palace of the Vampire Queen print sequence
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:40 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:Sorry David, I wasn't trying to rub salt in your wounds. :( I actually figued that you were done with it coinsidering what happened the 1st time around.

No probs, Brian.

Nope, like I said, I wasn't going to let it go for less than the "fair offer" level at which I'd intended to do a deal with Pete, as proposed by him.

There was a strong temptation not to agree to void the previous sale and leave Pete with the eBay fees for that one, unless I won, but I decided that was probably being a bit petty and OK'd that yesterday. Not a single word of thanks or any other message from Pete. *shrugs*

Hey, whatever... Medical issues and suchlike, I know (:(), but courtesy and communication are a separate matter, especially when that's explicitly promised by the seller.
Nothing like putting your neck on the line to the tune of more than a month's salary, then getting messed around.

</vent>

OK, onwards...

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:51 pm 
 

...trying very hard to fight off that burnt-out feeling again...but heart-felt congrats anyway, Jeff.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:29 pm 
 

Thank you.   :)   I'll post findings on the contents when received.  David suggests identifying if the copyright/distribution sheet is present.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:30 pm 
 

I didn't have a huge interest in the GD Kit, but if it was going to go cheap, I figured I might as well pick it up.


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:41 pm 
 

a2jeff wrote:I'll post findings on the contents when received. David suggests identifying if the copyright/distribution sheet is present.

*repeats previous observation*

Well, if it was pulled in Feb 1976 (at/near shop-opening date), it really should be missing that sheet (dated June 1976).
If it's not, that's another piece of possible dating/sequence evidence from Pete that we'll just have to discard :( ...And, into the bargain, I get PMs from various angry people for "putting them off" bidding on a "complete" "1st (*cough*) print".


That comment from Pete about remembering adding the cover sheet at a later date, even though now in totally the wrong context for the previous-stated-hybrid, is still nagging at me.
Gut feeling has been suggesting what direction this is all headed in, but I wouldn't have wished to disagree with any statements made by Pete without adequate physical evidence. And there's still far from enough of that around to do so definitively :?

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:53 pm 
 

Thanks bc for your vote of confidence.  One thing I've learned about this game is that there always seems to be a next time.  Patience is my best friend when it comes to collecting (and being a dad).  It took me five years to get my Pharaoh, but I got it.  Personally, I measure rarity in terms of how hard it was to get something.  I waited to get a woodgrain and I did.  My Greyhawk Edition Woody only cost me $90, and I got it two months ago from an online bookstore.  Great deals are still to be had, and that's part of the fun.  It's also fun competing with like-minded souls.  I've cost a lot of people a lot of money over the years, but that's okay.  The reverse is also true.  The only thing that I don't like about it is the limited access to these materials caused by the high prices.  People who might otherwise be interested in Wee Warriors or early D&D or whatever are unable to pursue their interests because of the raw economics of collecting, and that is unacceptable.  These ideas really belong to everyone.  That is why my long-term goal is the establishment of a permanently funded  library/museum, where anyone can come and view/study these materials for free, and even check out some of the more-common items.  It would be great for people to be able to check out TTOEE and run it, or have a place they could come to to compare the various copies of POTVQ, or even place to play a rare like ST1 or TDG.  Ideas only exist in the activity of production, meaning a book unread is no book at all.  Think of the great fantasy art gracing the walls of private collectors, when it could be enriching the lives of many in a world that desperately needs enriching. We have (or should have) a tremendous responsibility to not fuck this up.  The Acaeum website is a wonderful outreach for people interested in D&D, but it is only a first step in something that could be far greater.  It may not be up to us to create the how and the when, but we do have a chance to do some things.  We should do them well.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:05 am 
 

harami2000 wrote:
bclarkie wrote:Sorry David, I wasn't trying to rub salt in your wounds. :( I actually figued that you were done with it coinsidering what happened the 1st time around.

No probs, Brian.

Nope, like I said, I wasn't going to let it go for less than the "fair offer" level at which I'd intended to do a deal with Pete, as proposed by him.

There was a strong temptation not to agree to void the previous sale and leave Pete with the eBay fees for that one, unless I won, but I decided that was probably being a bit petty and OK'd that yesterday. Not a single word of thanks or any other message from Pete. *shrugs*

Hey, whatever... Medical issues and suchlike, I know (:(), but courtesy and communication are a separate matter, especially when that's explicitly promised by the seller.
Nothing like putting your neck on the line to the tune of more than a month's salary, then getting messed around.

</vent>

OK, onwards...


Outta curiousity. Was tfm privy (before auction ending) to the same misinformation between Harami and PK which led to Harami's overinflated auction bid the first time around?

Jes wondering if he felt mislead into bidding too high as well.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:58 am 
 

No.  I didn't know about the error in the listing until it popped up again.  David did some good follow-up work there.  I'm glad everything worked out.  I bid on POTVQ because I don't have that one, but I do have the other three.  As for the Designer's Kit, I've never seen one before.  Jeff is really positioning himself well to say something promising about Wee Warriors.  Perhaps it's time for another subweb.

Jeff, if you need information or scans of anything I have, please ask.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:23 pm 
 

tfm wrote:Perhaps it's time for another subweb.

Jeff, if you need information or scans of anything I have, please ask.


Thanks TFM, we'll likely need your help on these comparisons and investigations.   :D

As to a separate subweb, I would agree it might be time for one and would be glad to moderate or assist with these efforts.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:47 pm 
 

tfm wrote:
Adam Shultz wrote:Outta curiousity. Was tfm privy (before auction ending) to the same misinformation between Harami and PK which led to Harami's overinflated auction bid the first time around?

No. I didn't know about the error in the listing until it popped up again.

The primary misinformation was in plain sight on the auction description and did lead to a few other "overinflated" bids and at least one very high snipe pulled before the auction ended.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 8709691779
"When I opened my shop in Feb of 75 it served as our house copy but is in mint shape."

The comms between myself and Pete were actually a reassurance that that was not misinformation, by way of technical information and timescales.
Unfortunately he had the same wrong baseline date for those.

tfm wrote:David did some good follow-up work there. I'm glad everything worked out.

I presume you're meaning with regards the ongoing print sequence work, not the other matter? :P

Thanks, tfm ;)

  


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:32 pm 
 

Was just checking to see if the copyright sheet glued into the back of my foldered PoVQ differed in any obvious ways from the rest of the sheets - and it doesn't, as far as I can tell.  The paper is a slight bit whiter than the other sheets, but the font size and type appears identical to that on the other sheets.

However, I did notice that in the description of room 10 on Level IV, the word "Gems" has the "m" and "s" overlapping.  On the previous page, room 27 of Level III, "Gems" appears as "Gems"; i.e., with no overlapping of the "m" and "s".  

Don't know if this info is worth anything, but can someone with a non-foldered, but non-booklet, version tell me if that same abberation appears in theirs?

  


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:52 pm 
 

The 3rd print (assuming) POTVQ (castle cover yellow) has the same overlapping.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:05 pm 
 

I'll check the hybrid/1st print/house copy/2nd print/3rd print/whatever print when it arrives  :wink:

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:58 pm 
 

While we wait for the woody goody action to unfold I can report that the House Copy arrived today!   :P

Here are my observations, which match exactly to the current Acaeum first print description:  http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/ModPages/DMK.html

1.  17 total pages, standard-sized (8.5" x 11") loose-leaf; Ziploc bag IS included

2.  Intro page and Copyright page (one sheet): Yellow.

3.  Front (Intro page) has scrollwork on the outside border, and "This Kit Contains" and "Background" sections.  On the back (Copyright page) is the module title and copyright information.  The copyright page matches the Acaeum picture.

4.  Contents page:  White, double-sided.  Front has a repeated "This Kit Contains" section, followed by a "Kit Use" section and a map legend.  On the back is an expanded "Background" section

5.  Five pages of Encounter Descriptions.  White, double-sided

6.  Ten pages of Maps.  White, single-sided

The only other distinguishing feature on this copy is that House Copy has been written on the first page, as per the pic.  The shading on the map pages resembles the light grey/black combination.

So, where does this leave us :?:    I can post any pictures as well if that would help.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:23 pm 
 

Sounds like you got a very nice 1st print house copy directly from the publisher at an extremely reasonable cost. And a nice piece of history to boot!

Congrats!!  :D


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:26 pm 
 

jeff. does it have any (c) date anywhere on it?

Al



  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:53 pm 
 

a2jeff wrote:So, where does this leave us :?: I can post any pictures as well if that would help.

Thanks v.m. for opening the mod and peeking inside, Jeff.
Am sure that was a delicate operation.

Pete's memories of adding the front sheets to that copy might still be correct (albeit not in the original auction date context).
Would that have been easy to do, or was the ziploc sealed?
However, why would "House Copy" be written on the front sheet (if we now think that might be later from the black folder evidence, albeit with that copyright page stumbling block) rather than on the front of the ziploc or the first white sheet, if that had been the house copy back in Feb '76 when their shop opened?

Or else, Pete's friend's account got garbled there as well and the shop copy was just pulled from the "complete" assembled copies (c. June '76) they sent up to TSR (minus black folder). (To celebrate the TSR deal?).

The black folder must've been available earlier, if Pete sent one up to TSR as a sample, but there's still not one been found without the cover and copyright sheet afaik.


<clip later message from Pete>
Pete Kerestan wrote:Talked with one of my old gamers last night and he corrected some things I had forgotten.
...
He remembered I had sent the 74 poly bag item to TSR with a white copy of Brads cover art as well as a black folder copy to see if there was any interest. The date that I opened the shop was Feb of 76 not 75. And it was May of that year before I reached an agreement with them and sent the first items up. When I ran out of the folder run the switch was made to this poly bagged version then over to the booklet when the printer took over. He remembers it cause I did the proud parent bit pulling this from the run to put up behind the counter of the shop. So the pages in this are from the 76 run.


Any "facts" from the earlier messages (below) probably need to be even more carefully teased out from the obvious pitfalls (such as reference to the booklet form PotVQ in 1975).


<(re-)clip from six pages back to Mike/<IO>>
Pete Kerestan wrote:Hi, Yes I am Pete Kerestan. Your copy is the one following the poly bag. While in the service the black cover copy was put together in Morror Bay in 1974 by myself and my wife. In Feb of 75 with my shop open I began doing the booklet form on my own press from the existing product. Pete

<(re-)clip from six pages back to Mike/<IO>>
Pete Kerestan wrote:The product itself was first put out in a plastic bag with just a plain sheet front. They didn't sell to the hobby shops in LA at all well. I took the next step and had a black cover made up by my wife's cousin who had a print shop. This did some sales. I then got a press and ran the sheets again putting together a poly bag and adding a cover sheet that Brad did for me. This is the item currently on ebay, the original sheets and the new cover. In Jan of 75 a friend ran the shop till mid Feb when I got out of the service and took over the shop. I found a saddle back stapler and decided to go with the booklet form and abounded the idea of selling the product in my shop as a poly bagged item. This copy was put into my bookcase for shop use but I soon found most of us playing historical games and it just remained sitting here. Shortly after setting up a verbal agreement with TSR I turned over printing to a printer in Morro Bay and he did the printing on the products from that point on.

<clip earlier message from Pete>
Pete Kerestan wrote:Brad moved up to Morro Bay in 75 and I set him up with a place to stay for the artwork he was doing. We didn't know anything about copyrights, registering work etc. So you'll see the 75-76 date on the cover sheet which is his date on the art he did for the cover sheet. That sheet got added with my store opening, which was Jan of 75 as a friend of mine took care of it till my discharge in Feb. It was a bit funny that my old Captain stopped by the store 2 months later on a trip to SLO. My first run on the AB Dick 360 printing press I had picked up was used to remake the inside pages on this item over Xmas leave in 74 and the cover was used starting in 75 with the shop opening. The first poly version had a plain paper cover when I started and didn't have art for the cover and I didn't sell but a handfull to a shop in Venice Bach. I went to the folder idea and sold more that way. Very shortly I got a saddle back stapler and moved into the booklet form most people see today. Wow had to really reach deep to get to those old memory cells going again.



p.s. Did you like the photos?

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:59 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:jeff. does it have any (c) date anywhere on it?
Al

I kinda presumed on the copyright sheet, but that's still a valid question.

Is still strange that PotVQ wasn't backdated to the original printing (/idea?) date, whereas Endless was ("Copyright January 1975 - Distributed Exclusively by TSR Hobbies Inc.").

  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:08 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:jeff. does it have any (c) date anywhere on it?
Al

I kinda presumed on the copyright sheet, but that's still a valid question.

Is still strange that PotVQ wasn't backdated to the original printing (/idea?) date, whereas Endless was ("Copyright January 1975 - Distributed Exclusively by TSR Hobbies Inc.").


well i was just curious as to if it had changed any...anywhere else on the sheets know what i mean?

sounds to me like they had a lot of things all going on at once and it wouldnt surprise me if it all overlapped.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:09 pm 
 

so the house copy is pretty much the same as mine? except mine has the TSR (c) on the back of the yellow sheet?

Al



  
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