Howdy All,


Here are the two versions I'm talking about

Black Folder (24 sheets all white; offset printing w/ grid, no streaks):

01 Black Folder
01 Title page/use sheet, single-sided
01 Background sheet, single-sided
10 Map sheets, single-sided
10 Dungeon key sheets, single-sided
01 Copyright sheet, single-sided w/ single strip of glue along top of page


Yellow Cover Sheet Version (17 sheets; offset printing w/ grid, no streaks):

01 Title page/Copyright sheet, yellow, double-sided
01 Background/Use sheet, white, double-sided
10 Map sheets, white, single-sided
05 Dungeon key sheets, white, double-sided

The last is NOT the yellow-cover-tower version.


Futures Bright,

Paul

mbassoc2003 wrote:

afoolandhis$ wrote:My other one is a black-foldered version, no yellow sheets.

This is the one I'm interested in. I had always assumed, maybe wrongly, that the scrollwork would have appeared on the Title/Background sheet as it does in the unfoldered version.

I'll see if I can get some info from Rick Bauer on where/when he got it.

afoolandhis$ wrote:I'll see if I can get some info from Rick Bauer on where/when he got it.

I'm still betting on that GenCon auction, as listed.
(Would be good, if so!).

afoolandhis$ wrote:Well, I certainly hope your instincts are right, David, as they often are.

Yeah, would be a very good pedigree to have, if so!
(And, of course, one less "competitor"... *jk* ).

Was really just going by the date and that opening price, however.



===

Kinda wish I wasn't right about the 6th/7th (presumed) OCE, though, but there are multiple content differences- not just the covers.
Scott's gonna kill me!

Wish I could tie that in with Sotteraneo's "missing $10.00"/"missing starburst" set, but the colors ain't right.

Heck, could be 10th/11th printing, by the time we've all thrown our OD&D copies into the listing...
I'm not counting the other variants/different cover printings for now; and Deimos's "5th" looks more like a full printing than a variant, even though it could've been a test print (*waves hiya*)

afoolandhis$ wrote:

harami2000 wrote:Wish I could tie that in with Sotteraneo's "missing $10.00"/"missing starburst" set, but the colors ain't right.

Yeah, this one is intriguing, to say the least. You mean the colors of the covers, right?

Apologies y'all; I'd better not clog this thread! My mind's already doing loops over the PotVQ "issues" without any additional digression from myself.
Presume I'm not the only one getting a headache trying to figure this out!

=
Have put a temporary post over here re. the OD&D sets, Stephen;
New print(s) of the OCE set? • Collecting General •  The Acaeum

** I changed the subject line of this thread to more clearly identify what's going on here **

Alrighty. I sat down and waded through this thread again, and promptly gave myself a headache. The new sequence, as best as I could determine:

First. Black folder. Offset printed with gray grid on maps. The "quality" print, printed in El Segundo, CA at Judy's cousin Jerry Wellfonder's print shop. Either 18 or 24 total pages (some copies have double-sided pages, others have single-sided). TSR (who was the distributor) was replicating occasional missing pages of this print on their in-house photocopier; these replacement pages will show copier streaking on the lower right corner of the page.

Second. Bagged Yellow-Covered (no artwork) version. Offset printed with gray grid on maps. This offset printing, however, is of slightly lower quality than the First print's; under magnification, the halftone dots that comprise the gray grid on the maps can be seen as splotchy and/or not uniform in size. Our theory here is that the Second print copies were run off the same (but now dirty) printing plates as the First print. However, due to cost reasons, a black folder was not produced for this print run. Either 17 or 24 total pages (some copies have double-sided pages, others have single-sided). We have not spotted any TSR-photocopied replacement pages in this print.

Third. Bagged Yellow-Covered (with artwork of a tower) version. Photocopied, with black, jagged grid inside the rooms. Produced at an unknown print shop in CA. Due to printing costs, this third printing featured a yellow-paper cover (with artwork) instead of the expensive foil-stamped black folders they were getting for a big discount at Jerry's shop. Many copies of this print were distributed by Lou Zocchi, and some feature his sticker on the copyright page. 13, double-sided pages.

Fourth. Bagged Yellow-Covered (with artwork of a tower) version. Photocopied, with no gray grid inside the rooms. The "Bella PotVQ". Appears to also have been photocopied, but the copier was set too light to pick up the gray grid at all.  Unknown where this was done, but due to the age of the bag and other indicators, was probably done in the 1970's as opposed to recently. 13, double-sided pages.

Further comments welcome. Please let me know if anyone has a copy that does *not* fit into one of these prints.

Hopefully you'll hear back from Kerestan/Morno on this, IO, so we can get some further insight....

Foul

My reasoning on separating the black folder & non-foldered versions was because of the offset quality.  Under a microscope, I noticed the same thing that Paul did with his copy, i.e. that the printing was lower quality, with some splotchiness to the dots.  Ergo, it *was* a separate printing, assuming that *all* of the black-foldered copies have crisp halftone dots under magnification (at least Paul's copy does; the only one that's been checked).

Since the theory is that the same printing plate was used, but now it's dirty (accounting for the splotchiness of the dots), then it follows that the unfoldered version came second.

Both prints were certainly run off in close proximity.  For valuation purposes, the black folder version should command a higher price, simply by virtue of the presence of this expensive black folder (not necessarily because it was printed first or second, which indeed, we can't say for certain --though odds are very good the black folder version was printed first.

As to the Third/Fourth print, the case is less certain.  We have no idea which was photocopied first.  As such, it's a lot easier to do as you suggest, make both versions of the Third print, with and without the grid.

Foul

Agreed, it is.  I encourage everyone who has a copy of the folder / folderless version to get a magnifying glass (or a microscope) and take a look at the halftone grid.  At the moment, we're working with a sample of only three elements.

Foul

FoulFoot wrote:** I changed the subject line of this thread to more clearly identify what's going on here **

Alrighty. I sat down and waded through this thread again, and promptly gave myself a headache. The new sequence, as best as I could determine:

First. Black folder. Offset printed with gray grid on maps. The "quality" print, printed in El Segundo, CA at Judy's cousin Jerry Wellfonder's print shop. Either 18 or 24 total pages (some copies have double-sided pages, others have single-sided). TSR (who was the distributor) was replicating occasional missing pages of this print on their in-house photocopier; these replacement pages will show copier streaking on the lower right corner of the page.

Second. Bagged Yellow-Covered (no artwork) version. Offset printed with gray grid on maps. This offset printing, however, is of slightly lower quality than the First print's; under magnification, the halftone dots that comprise the gray grid on the maps can be seen as splotchy and/or not uniform in size. Our theory here is that the Second print copies were run off the same (but now dirty) printing plates as the First print. However, due to cost reasons, a black folder was not produced for this print run. Either 17 or 24 total pages (some copies have double-sided pages, others have single-sided). We have not spotted any TSR-photocopied replacement pages in this print.

Third. Bagged Yellow-Covered (with artwork of a tower) version. Photocopied, with black, jagged grid inside the rooms. Produced at an unknown print shop in CA. Due to printing costs, this third printing featured a yellow-paper cover (with artwork) instead of the expensive foil-stamped black folders they were getting for a big discount at Jerry's shop. Many copies of this print were distributed by Lou Zocchi, and some feature his sticker on the copyright page. 13, double-sided pages.

Fourth. Bagged Yellow-Covered (with artwork of a tower) version. Photocopied, with no gray grid inside the rooms. The "Bella PotVQ". Appears to also have been photocopied, but the copier was set too light to pick up the gray grid at all. Unknown where this was done, but due to the age of the bag and other indicators, was probably done in the 1970's as opposed to recently. 13, double-sided pages.

Further comments welcome. Please let me know if anyone has a copy that does *not* fit into one of these prints.

Hopefully you'll hear back from Kerestan/Morno on this, IO, so we can get some further insight....

Foul

Thanks for this, its very helpful. My copy ebay item 5176120768 fits this
third category - it has grid lines on the maps. The grid lines are fairly
clear and consistent on most of the map pages, with the exception of
the players map for level 5 where the grid lines appear fainter.

Note that the seller here bought the item new in the UK in the 1970's.
I'd be interested to know if all these versions were available new in both the US and UK, or just the former.