eBay sales tax?
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 21, 2
Author


Active Collector

Posts: 42
Joined: Jan 04, 2021
Last Visit: Apr 01, 2024

Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:28 pm 
 

Sellers do not pay sales tax when someone buys an item from them

The sales tax is paid by the buyer. ONLY in states who collect sales tax on 'Internet or Online' sales.

Many retailers have been doing it from the start, some just started doing it

Ebay is a great online marketplace. People complain about fees but I have no problem paying some $$ to reach thosands, even millions of potential buyers

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6994
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 19, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:20 am 
 

rlw2970 wrote in eBay sales tax?:Sellers do not pay sales tax when someone buys an item from them

The sales tax is paid by the buyer. ONLY in states who collect sales tax on 'Internet or Online' sales.

Many retailers have been doing it from the start, some just started doing it

Ebay is a great online marketplace. People complain about fees but I have no problem paying some $$ to reach thosands, even millions of potential buyers

If you sell something to a UK buyer, under UK law you must now register, collect that sales tax, and pay it to HMRC. If you sell through a third party business like Amazon or eBay Marketplace, then that responsibility passes from you to that business, so make sure you list items and use eBay Marketplace.

If you choose to carry on selling to people in the UK on a consistent basis, in a manner that is designed to avoid or circumvent UK Law, HMSC will most likely just send you and the buyer a warning to cease and desist. However, there will come a time when they will enforce with penalties, and whilst it is unlikely that you will care if you are sued in a foreign court for breaking those country's importation laws, you would end up with an enforceable penalty that will continue to accrue interest and enforcement fees over the years. You may find in time that if you travel abroad you are detained pending investigation of an old debt, or you may find that over zealous law firms discover that they can enforce these fines on US soil (with their own astronomical admin fees added of course), and what was originally a stupid act of bravado costs you a lot more than you can imagine.

You tell me, the US is the litigation king of the world.

My advice would be to cease selling anything to UK buyers without putting it through someone else's business platform - pass this responsibility onto them. If the buyer doesn't want to pay the additional fees, then they didn't want the item in the first place.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 426
Joined: Feb 06, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 20, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:02 am 
 

This is a change that is coming for all the EU later in the year but the UK has chosen to implement the change sooner, 1 January 2021 instead of July.

It’s compounded by BREXIT because it now applies to supplies to the UK from all EU countries.

The VAT charge at the border (and £8 handling fee) is now gone because sellers are required to register for UK VAT. In fact this change was likely brought in on 1 January because the existing system would not be able to cope with the volume of packages from the EU.

Where sales are through an online marketplace like eBay it is up to eBay to charge the VAT and I see it is doing that, including for items from the EU. Amazon will have to do the same on purchases from third party sellers.

Books are exempt from VAT so eBay shouldn’t be charging VAT on books. That doesn’t mean it isn’t and I haven’t checked. I largely stopped buying from the US over the last ten years as shipping costs have increased dramatically and I have most of the things I want.

So it’s really important for non-UK sellers to mark packages as “books” rather than “games”.  There may be differences in the approach eBay takes depending on the category an item is listed in. Again I haven’t checked. I have had to reclaim VAT in the past when US sellers have not marked items as books, although one could never get the £8 handling fee back.

It has been covered by the press, well the FT at least, it’s the only daily I read so may be covered elsewhere. Subscribe to read | Financial Times

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6994
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 19, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:26 am 
 

Sardan wrote in eBay sales tax?:Books are exempt from VAT so eBay shouldn’t be charging VAT on books. That doesn’t mean it isn’t and I haven’t checked. I largely stopped buying from the US over the last ten years as shipping costs have increased dramatically and I have most of the things I want.

So it’s really important for non-UK sellers to mark packages as “books” rather than “games”.  There may be differences in the approach eBay takes depending on the category an item is listed in. Again I haven’t checked. I have had to reclaim VAT in the past when US sellers have not marked items as books, although one could never get the £8 handling fee back.

It has been covered by the press, well the FT at least, it’s the only daily I read so may be covered elsewhere. Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Thanks for the link (Sadly I do not subscribe).

Note that not all books are tax exempts. RPG books are classed as games and are taxable. The best description you can make is 'used books' with no explanation as to subject matter or content. You can then add your insurable value, and only if they open it will they then make the assessment that they are game materials and add tax. Usually scan will match description and it will pass without scrutiny.

The problem isn't the tax. Most buyers from abroad agree with and pay the tax. The problem is going to be all the small businesses that sell everything online, that will not longer ship to the UK rather than registering with HMRC and making quarterly returns to the British Government under threat of fines if they make a mistake. Better to not sell to UK customers and avoid all the headaches plain and simple.

This is why the majority of banks will not entertain US citizens as customers, not because those citizens are unwilling to pay the bank charges, or because they are inclined toward money laundering, but because it simply is not worth jumping through all the hoops and opening up their banks to the IRS requirements.

Interesting though that all European buyers are to be isolated from the world and corralled into buying from a few select major sources though, and interesting also that soon US buyers will be seriously penalised if they sell to anyone in Europe, and not just the UK, unless they sell through Amazon or eBay Marketplace.

Seems like quite a nail in the coffin of mom and pop businesses.

I'm wondering when they'll make it illegal to sell second hand vehicles, unless it is done through an approved reseller, on health and safety grounds. In fact, why not make it illegal for a person to work on or maintain a vehicle or appliance unless it is done by a major vendor network. If the muppetry buy into that and then you can stop them darning their own socks and pants too.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2554
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Last Visit: Jan 06, 2024
Location: Far Harad, Texas

Post Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:16 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in eBay sales tax?:I'm wondering when they'll make it illegal to sell second hand vehicles, unless it is done through an approved reseller, on health and safety grounds. In fact, why not make it illegal for a person to work on or maintain a vehicle or appliance unless it is done by a major vendor network. If the muppetry buy into that and then you can stop them darning their own socks and pants too.


Hate to break this to you, but there's now a curmudgeon tax on unsolicited opinions entering the US electronically. All those Trump supporters & their antifa opponents will soon need something else to rant & rave about, so we have erected protectionist barriers to help support our growing population of loudmouths.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6994
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 19, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:24 pm 
 

Lol. Naw. If you guys were gonna do that, you'd already have tested it in that place where you test all those things on people.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 426
Joined: Feb 06, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 20, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:44 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in eBay sales tax?:Thanks for the link (Sadly I do not subscribe).

Note that not all books are tax exempts. RPG books are classed as games and are taxable.


I don’t think that is correct. While games are VATable, books aren’t. So rulebooks, modules, etc. Even Fighting Fantasy books are zero-rated.  It’s only when rulebooks are packaged with other items like dice that they fall within the games category. If it’s just printed matter it’s fine. So no VAT on a Player’s Handbook for example. (Well technically speaking there is VAT, it’s just charged at 0%.)

I successfully reclaimed VAT on a Kickstarter package on the basis that even though there were other items not just books (a ruler, a bookmark etc., I think) those other items were stretch goals and supplied for no payment and the cost solely related to the books.


mbassoc2003 wrote in eBay sales tax?:The problem isn't the tax. Most buyers from abroad agree with and pay the tax. The problem is going to be all the small businesses that sell everything online, that will not longer ship to the UK rather than registering with HMRC and making quarterly returns to the British Government under threat of fines if they make a mistake. Better to not sell to UK customers and avoid all the headaches plain and simple.


I don’t disagree with that. Although, obviously if the small business sellers via eBay or Amazon, it is eBay or Amazon that is responsible for dealing with VAT. I expect some may go that route.

mbassoc2003 wrote in eBay sales tax?:This is why the majority of banks will not entertain US citizens as customers, not because those citizens are unwilling to pay the bank charges, or because they are inclined toward money laundering, but because it simply is not worth jumping through all the hoops and opening up their banks to the IRS requirements.


I work in finance and some products/suppliers won’t be available to US citizens because of FATCA but the US is too big to ignore and all the big banks already comply with FATCA and routinely ask customers to confirm their tax status.

United Kingdom | Commercial Banking | Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) | HSBC Is the first example I came across on google.  Banks have to apply FATCA. My brother opened a bank account for a club and he was asked to confirm it’s US tax status. That’s routine.

mbassoc2003 wrote in eBay sales tax?:Interesting though that all European buyers are to be isolated from the world and corralled into buying from a few select major sources though, and interesting also that soon US buyers will be seriously penalised if they sell to anyone in Europe, and not just the UK, unless they sell through Amazon or eBay Marketplace.

Seems like quite a nail in the coffin of mom and pop businesses.


They just won’t sell to the EU/UK unless via an online marketplace.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6994
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 19, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:29 am 
 

Sardan wrote in eBay sales tax?:I successfully reclaimed VAT on a Kickstarter package on the basis that even though there were other items not just books (a ruler, a bookmark etc., I think) those other items were stretch goals and supplied for no payment and the cost solely related to the books.

That's the problem though. I dealt with it for decades. Royal Mail impose VAT on products as they see fit, and on top of that they impose an £8 charge, so they are incentivised when opening a package to find a reason to impose a charge. You can fill out a form and claim your VAT back, but you don't get your £8 charge back, and you spend your own time chasing £5 in VAT instead of working and creating turnover.

They just won’t sell to the EU/UK unless via an online marketplace.

Yep, that's what I think will happen. It'll take time for people to get the message, and lots of nasty letters from HMRC to sellers, but soon we'll only be able to buy through eBay Marketplace and Amazon, and maybe a big reseller like Noble Knight Games, but I can't see small businesses anywhere selling as an independent to people in the UK/EU, and if anyone is going to pick up the cost, it can only be the buyer, because sellers are not that dumb or that desperate.

That said, with a company like NKG, are they really going to register with HMRC and do tax returned to the UK? And then register with the tax authorities in Germany, France, Spain, Italy and do the same? Maybe come July the EU will have a single tax authority and a single tax structure, but give that they refused to work together and combine their finances over the past 30-40 years, and that's why the whole system failed in the first place, I don't really thing any of the countries in Europe are ready to give up their sovereignty any time in the next half century.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2554
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Last Visit: Jan 06, 2024
Location: Far Harad, Texas

Post Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:47 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in eBay sales tax?:I don't really thing any of the countries in Europe are ready to give up their sovereignty any time in the next half century.


True, but what if the EU can support separatist movements within those countries, which would then break away to join the EU? Sounds crazy, but it just might work.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6994
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 19, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:14 am 
 

sauromatian wrote in eBay sales tax?:
True, but what if the EU can support separatist movements within those countries, which would then break away to join the EU? Sounds crazy, but it just might work.


If what others have said on here is true, and the UK has just done what the rest of the EU is going to do in July, then it doesn't matter who does what, an independent seller has only one choice, and that is to sell through Amazon or eBay. If they sell directly to Europe, they have to register to have tax accounts with each country independently. There is no such thing as a 'European Economy' in the sense that every country has always had its own economy and completely independent finances and taxation. The Germans will never allow the Greeks or the Spanish to have a say in the way they run their country or tax their citizens, and visa versa.

So, if these laws go through, I don't even see the likes of NKG selling to Europe without going through a third party.

What I do see is an opportunity for one or two of the big tech companies setting up a distribution arm to move goods in and out of Europe and the UK, and handle all the taxation and accountancy stuff for small retailers via an app. And if I had to put money on it, I reckon it'll be Amazon because they already have the logistical infrastructure and could just bolt that on to their existing business.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 426
Joined: Feb 06, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 20, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:26 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in eBay sales tax?:That's the problem though. I dealt with it for decades. Royal Mail impose VAT on products as they see fit, and on top of that they impose an £8 charge, so they are incentivised when opening a package to find a reason to impose a charge. You can fill out a form and claim your VAT back, but you don't get your £8 charge back, and you spend your own time chasing £5 in VAT instead of working and creating turnover.


Yep, that's what I think will happen. It'll take time for people to get the message, and lots of nasty letters from HMRC to sellers, but soon we'll only be able to buy through eBay Marketplace and Amazon, and maybe a big reseller like Noble Knight Games, but I can't see small businesses anywhere selling as an independent to people in the UK/EU, and if anyone is going to pick up the cost, it can only be the buyer, because sellers are not that dumb or that desperate.

That said, with a company like NKG, are they really going to register with HMRC and do tax returned to the UK? And then register with the tax authorities in Germany, France, Spain, Italy and do the same? Maybe come July the EU will have a single tax authority and a single tax structure.


They won’t have a single tax system but when these changes come in in July a business will be able to register in one EU country and then do a single VAT return for all EU supplies. It’s called the “one stop shop”.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6994
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 19, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:26 pm 
 

Well at least that's sensible.
So if I sell materials to Europe, and Germany is the bulk of my clientele, I register to pay the tax on goods in Germany, and it covers tax paid on all countries in Europe, so when I ship to Portugal, it just gets added to the total tax I collect and pay to Germany?
I assume taxation in all countries in Europe will then be made the same, and I'm not expected to tax at X% when shipping to county X, Y% when shipping to country Y, for example?
All apart from the UK who went rogue of course.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 426
Joined: Feb 06, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 20, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:50 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in eBay sales tax?:Well at least that's sensible.
So if I sell materials to Europe, and Germany is the bulk of my clientele, I register to pay the tax on goods in Germany, and it covers tax paid on all countries in Europe, so when I ship to Portugal, it just gets added to the total tax I collect and pay to Germany?
I assume taxation in all countries in Europe will then be made the same, and I'm not expected to tax at X% when shipping to county X, Y% when shipping to country Y, for example?
All apart from the UK who went rogue of course.


I think you only need one VAT return in one country but have to charge, collect and pay at the different rates for each country you trade with.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6994
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 19, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:52 pm 
 

Sardan wrote in eBay sales tax?:I think you only need one VAT return in one country but have to charge, collect and pay at the different rates for each country you trade with.

So if you sell figures, dice, map boards, books and boxed sets, you only need to register to pay tax in the UK and in one European country (and let's face it, its gonna be Germany, because they are the only country with the honesty and integrity, and customer service to be able to deal with foreign trade fairly), but you have to know what the tax rates are for each individual country you sell to, and itemise those different rates and different sales in your tax return?

Sounds like a plan to destroy small business and funnel all sales into a few giant conglomerates to me. Short of making it completely illegal to buy or sell online, I can't think of a better way to write laws that force you to only buy or sell through Amazon or eBay Marketplace.

The real question will be what happens if people just ignore all this?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  
Previous
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 21, 2