Informal poll
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:27 pm 
 

D20's. The standard should be D20's.

"i'll give you 500 D20's for that 3rd print brown box.)


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:23 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:D20's. The standard should be D20's.

"i'll give you 500 D20's for that 3rd print brown box.)


So, we can even make that idea even easier, by seperating the D20's by type.



Copper D20's;

Silver D20'; (=10 Coppers)

Gold D20'; (=200 Coppers)

Electrum D20's; (=400 Coppers) and

Platinum D20's. (=1000 Coppers)



That way one would not have to ship 500 Copper D20's to the seller to buy that 3rd Print Woody, instead it would only take half a Platinum D20. Cuts down on shipping costs too.



Instead of paying the shipping company a few dozen Copper D20's just to mail the seller enough additional Copper D20's to make up the full payment for the Woody, you would only need a Half Platinum to pay the seller, and a Copper D20 or two would be enough pay the shipping company to ship the Half Platinum D20 to the seller for the payment price of the Woody.



Now we just need to find an easy way to cut a Platinum D20 in half.... :? 8O


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:24 pm 
 

well, we could just send him a Platinum d10, no?

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:43 pm 
 

tsrart wrote:
So, realistically, it is worth $1,500, since everyone else's bids would be destroyed by John's. You can't take the average, which seems around $800, because the Huckster just made it worth $1,500. Do you see?




Well, only if you are talking about a very limited time span and circumstance. What if the Huckster is the only person on the planet willing to pay more than $800? Say he buys one for $1500. No one else will pay more than $800 - so is the value for the NEXT copy $800? Or $1500 (which no one will pay)?



Valuation on any non-unique item has to be based on an average, not an isolated abberrant price. Otherwise, you end up with a VERY unstable market, with no item really having a true "value."



Besides that, valuations based on "assuming finances weren't an issue" aren't worth much. If finances weren't an issue, I'd offer $25k for the Robh Ruppel painting I'm trying to get away from the owner. However, if finances weren't an issue, he wouldn't need the money . . . . Real world dollars are the only ones that matter. And that's even more true in the case of the Tamoachan, which isn't a unique item.



Just my $.02!



Pat




Nicely said.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:45 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:I think one point being missed here in this discussion is the fact are we talking about the "value" of something or are we talking about "how much someone is willing to pay". Both I think are totally different amounts and I think there is some confusion to that point. Fact of the matter is just because some JACKASS is willing to pay $450.00 for a Warriors of Mars, does not mean that it has that "value" :?. I mean using that logic, I could say well sh*t, "I'd pay $20,000 for a second print B2!!!", but as everyone clearly knows, that sure in hell does not mean that it has that "value". That is were I think the valuation board comes in, and establishing figures on what items actual values seem to be based on previous sales history. I know this has been beat to death, but a price guide is simply a GUIDE. The guide itself is supposed to be just to establish the relative particular "value" of an item and it is not set up to say that is what you have to pay. It is also not to determine "How much is somebody willing to pay". As stated before, I know we don't live in a vacuum, and I know instinctually a lot of people view price guides as saying that is what you have to pay, but in order to have an effective price guide you have to do it based on the averages. Just another of my .02(I am going to have to start selling off my collection if this keeps up :wink: )


A price guide is supposed to represent the value of an item in various conditions, not the price someone is willing to pay for it.  I believe that the confusion over value and the price someone paid is the source of so many disagreements.  But so as not to derail the thread any further, I won't give specifics, because there's no need to pollute two threads with what has been referred to as my "irrational" thoughts.:roll:



Perhaps I shouldn't have bothered replying to this thread, as I seem to be as welcome as Maxwell right about now.



  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:41 pm 
 

Traveller wrote:Perhaps I shouldn't have bothered replying to this thread, as I seem to be as welcome as Maxwell right about now.




Keep posting, Trav. I might not have been in agreement with everything you've written, but I do appreciate that you're attempting to approach the subject with logical arguments and great passion.



I've learned a lot, both from your posts and from those of some who have fired back at you. I hope everyone keeps bringing forth suggestions, and I further hope we all try to dial down the snide remarks and witty comebacks ... no matter where one stands in the Great Valuation Debates of 2005, it's important to remember that there's a difference between criticism and constructive criticism, not to mention a difference between defending yourself and being too defensive.



End of sermon. :)

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:54 pm 
 

Ethesis, I see your point, but like I said, Huckie would not be the only one to pay $1,500. Someone was willing to pay $1,495. And someone was probably willing to pay $1,100. And so on.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:01 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Keep posting, Trav. I might not have been in agreement with everything you've written, but I do appreciate that you're attempting to approach the subject with logical arguments and great passion.



I've learned a lot, both from your posts and from those of some who have fired back at you. I hope everyone keeps bringing forth suggestions, and I further hope we all try to dial down the snide remarks and witty comebacks ... no matter where one stands in the Great Valuation Debates of 2005, it's important to remember that there's a difference between criticism and constructive criticism, not to mention a difference between defending yourself and being too defensive.



End of sermon. :)




I agree. I think there is definitely room for everyone's opinion, especially well thought out and well meaning ones. I think that we All need to do less attacking and more discussing.



Traveller wrote:Perhaps I shouldn't have bothered replying to this thread, as I seem to be as welcome as Maxwell right about now.




Besides Trav, you write and spell a hell of a lot better than maxwell ever did. The only word that maxwell ever spelled right on a consistant basis was f*ck. :wink: Go figure. :roll:


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:25 am 
 

Various statements from the previous posts.




Traveller, just to throw in my own opinion . . . of course, you are welcome to continue to post . . . in fact, I hope you do. But you must admit, you got downright rude and insulting with your replies . . . if you don't believe me, just put yourself in my shoes and go back and read them. . .



That is often the curse of the internet sometimes. It is easy to get carried away when we are typing things out to people whom we identify with mainly as "screen names'.





Hell, I bet if Deadlord and Maxwell could have met at the local tavern a few months ago, they would have drained a few beers and left on friendly terms! :D


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:25 am 
 

JFDL @ bclarkie



Thanks.  I really did need that laugh.



  

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:41 am 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:Traveller, just to throw in my own opinion . . . of course, you are welcome to continue to post . . . in fact, I hope you do. But you must admit, you got downright rude and insulting with your replies . . . if you don't believe me, just put yourself in my shoes and go back and read them. . .



That is often the curse of the internet sometimes. It is easy to get carried away when we are typing things out to people whom we identify with mainly as "screen names'.


I only get rude when I'm treated rudely.  And I was treated rudely.  I do apologize if you believed I was somehow insulting you, but I simply state facts, and refuse to sugar coat my words simply to make people feel better.  That's not how I work.  That has NEVER been how I work.



  

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:53 am 
 

traveller wrote: and refuse to sugar coat my words simply to make people feel better. That's not how I work. That has NEVER been how I work.




I am very sorry for you then. I apologize for speaking up at all just now.





Good luck out there!



. . . it's a wild world . . .



it's hard to get by, just upon a smile . . .



8)


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:13 am 
 

:roll:



Getting a bit melodramatic are we?



  


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:33 pm 
 

Traveller wrote::roll:



Getting a bit melodramatic are we?


If that's all it is, I love a decent melodrama to chill out...



Still seems like "ivory tower" syndrome, though; can read claims to be "listening", but little or no evidence to back such claims.

(Easy to see where the frustration comes from in such circumstances).

  

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:16 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
Traveller wrote::roll:



Getting a bit melodramatic are we?


If that's all it is, I love a decent melodrama to chill out...



Still seems like "ivory tower" syndrome, though; can read claims to be "listening", but little or no evidence to back such claims.

(Easy to see where the frustration comes from in such circumstances).




Hey, nothing too serious going on here.  :)



 By the way, I did give a detailed and considerate response to travellers concerns back in the vaulation thread. . .  Why say I have the "ivory tower" syndome anyway?  For my part, I believe I have been trying to answer many of the concerns and questions raised with well thought out answers.  



I have listened to everything being said.



I am attempting to help devise a system that everyone will be content with.





How about starting a concern with a:



"that looks good, but have you ever considered. . . "



or



"one thing that occurs to me as a possible flaw is that . . ."



or



"maybe it might be beneficial to. . ."





:wink:


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:12 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
Traveller wrote::roll:



Getting a bit melodramatic are we?


If that's all it is, I love a decent melodrama to chill out...



Still seems like "ivory tower" syndrome, though; can read claims to be "listening", but little or no evidence to back such claims.

(Easy to see where the frustration comes from in such circumstances).




And my frustration is the direct result of sarcastic smart asses who contribute NOTHING but keep on criticising and bashing. Go post a proposal for an improvement to the valuation system before you reply to my comment. Traveller did that. You never did.


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:20 pm 
 

Ralf Toth wrote:
harami2000 wrote:
If that's all it is, I love a decent melodrama to chill out...



Still seems like "ivory tower" syndrome, though; can read claims to be "listening", but little or no evidence to back such claims.

(Easy to see where the frustration comes from in such circumstances).




And my frustration is the direct result of sarcastic smart asses who contribute NOTHING but keep on criticising and bashing. Go post a proposal for an improvement to the valuation system before you reply to my comment. Traveller did that. You never did.


You obviously NEVER BOTHERED READING MY WORDS, but just chose to take personal offense (or take personal offense on behalf of others) wherever you damn-well could, Ralf....

Thank you for confirming MY suspicions about you, as you would say...



If y'all are claiming to be "listening"; please show some evidence of doing so, otherwise it's absolutely pointless anyone providing feedback.

Even a list of "these are the points we're considering applying"...



And I would apologise for the swearing there, but you seem to feel perfectly free to throw words like "smart ass" around.



Sorry, but "ivory tower" describes you perfectly, even though I never applied that to a single individual, merely a repeated-a-hundred-times feeling that various issues were NOT being listened to, merely slammed as "not relevant" by the "powers that be".

  


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Post Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:29 pm 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:How about starting a concern with a:



"that looks good, but have you ever considered. . . "



or



"one thing that occurs to me as a possible flaw is that . . ."



or



"maybe it might be beneficial to. . ."





:wink:


Was that a wink or a melodramatic wink?



Sorry; but since when were only concerns written in exactly the form you require "listened to", oh teacher? (that was sarcastic, but your comments could easily be interpreted as such, too)

To "soft talk" would be to give the impression that things are generally "OK" with me, and that only some "fine tuning" would be required.



=



How about asking people's opinions before foisting a system on them in the first place without any advance notice?

*

Have already mentioned that it would be easy enough to run the two in parallel.

Similarly, you could revert to the old valuations for the time being; take the critique, both positive and negative, do some brainstorming, and come back with a "gamma", rather than a faulty "beta".



Leaving the current "valuations" in the public domain will be taken "as gospel" by passers-by.

(Just like no-one has yet corrected the "Dungeon Masters Guide (2nd Alpha): NM: $562 (9/04)" line, which I pointed out, in passing).



Thanks again for all the hard work. :)

  
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