Search Manipulation
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:14 pm 
 

Hey all...

I have been informed that my auctions have been in violation of Ebay policy. Reading the policy, it makes sense. I had made up my "search modifier" section of my auctions a long time ago. I had been selling for about four years off and on without realizing I was in violation. Over the past couple of days, I did some google research regarding this phenomenon. Guess where the search pointed me? Right here (amongst other places). Well, the current auctions are being systematically taken down. I aplogize for any inconvenience this may pose. I also apologize for the violation.  I will be relisting the items next week sometime (probably Thursday) of course without the modifiers.

Thanks goodness Ebay credits your account for these mishaps! I may have had to take out a second mortgage!

Best to all.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:18 pm 
 

morgansurname wrote:Hey all...

I have been informed that my auctions have been in violation of Ebay policy. Reading the policy, it makes sense.


What is exactly search manipulation? Now I'm back auctioning at full speed, I don't want to risk anything  :oops:

  


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:28 pm 
 

For more information on Search Manipulation, please visit:

eBay: Redirect


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:37 pm 
 

morgansurname wrote:For more information on Search Manipulation, please visit:

eBay: Redirect

I understand and they are right  8O . It happens, sometimes  :D

  


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:38 pm 
 

Below I have cut and pasted the latest letter I received from Ebay and my responses.  I th ought the conversation might be interesting and entertaining.   :wink:



FROM ME:  



Message: Hello,  I received multiple notices that my auction were in

> violation of Ebay policy.  Evidently, my search modifiers constitute

> "search manipulation".  Also, a link that I provide to a website with

> picutures and a description of individual items was mentioned as a

> violation of another sort.  I have been reselling on Ebay for over three

> years off and on.  I was a Powerseller until recently when my health

> took a turn for the worse.  I was unaware of these violations.  My

> concern includes the following questions which I would like answered:

> 1.  Why was I not given a warning and an opportunity to edit the

> listings as this was my first warning?  2.  Who reported these

> violations?  3.  Who makes the decision to cancel auctions in such

> cases?  4.  Will I be reimbursed for the listing fees?  5.  I would

> request that the auctions be reinstated and that I be able to edit them

> to remove all and any infringements.  I would do so asap.  I have

> attempted to be as best of an exa!

> mple of a Ebay community member as possible.  I will continue to do so.

> However, I feel that this sudden and permanent decision to be a bit

> extreme for a first warning....






EBAYS REPLY

Hello,

>

> I apologize for any frustration that you are experiencing with regard to

> the action taken on your eBay listing.

>

> I would like to address your concerns in this email. I do ask for your

> patience as I anticipate this response to be rather long.

>

> Please let me assure you that we only review listings that are either

> reported to us by members like yourself who believe these listings to be

> in violation of our selling guidelines or during one of our searches for

> listing policy violations. Only after extensive review do we take action

> on those listings that we deem to be contradictory to our listing

> policy.

>

> When action is taken, it is to protect our members from activities that

> are inconsistent with eBay's policies, listing guidelines, or

> principles. Also we must enforce such policies in an effort to establish

> an equal playing field for our members. In many cases, it is our

> preference to inform our members of violations and allow them the

> opportunity to bring their future listings into compliance. However,

> there are times when an auction end is appropriate. This was one of

> those instances.

>

> As you know, Search Manipulation is the practice of including product

> names, or brand names, often to referred to as "keywords", in your

> listings that are not part of the item, or items, for sale in the

> listing. eBay does make allowance for one comparison in a listing in

> order to draw a parallel between a similar product and the one for sale,

> however, this is the only exception to the guideline.

>

> The main issue with this practice is that it negatively impacts our

> search engine and it is commonly used to divert users looking for

> specific products, or brand name goods, to a sellers listing which is

> offering a different product. Items that are not directly related to a

> members  search criteria, yet appear in their search results, causes a

> great deal of confusion and frustration to our members. We are simply

> trying to ensure that our buyers have an efficient search engine to help

> find the specific items they are wanting to purchase. I hope you

> understand our concern in this matter.

>

> To use your one of your listings as an example, lets review the listing

> for "D&D Dungeon Master's Guide Master DM's AD&D 2011", item number

> 5167210372, contained the following text that is in violation of this

> policy:

>

> "Check out my other RPG, D&D, AD&D, MERP and ICE auctions...

>

> WATCH FOR MORE BOOKS, GAMES, BOARD GAMES, ACTION FIGURES, AND COMICS...

>

> Dungeons and & Dragons Dungeon Dragon D&D AD&D 2E 2ED 2nd Edition 3.0

> 3.5 TSR WOTC Wizards of the Coast Forgotten Realms Dragonlance Ravenloft

> Al-Qadim Hollow World Kara-Tur Dark Sun Planescape Spelljammer Lankhmar

> World of Greyhawk The Horde Maztica Spellbound Menzoberranzan Role

> Playing Game RPG Board Game Set Blackmoor DM Dungeon Master Guide GM

> Game Master Fiend Folio Polyhedron RPGA Encyclopedia Magica Monster

> Monstrous Manual Compendium Deities Demigods Complete"

>

> Your listing was for a Dungeon Master's Guide for the Advanced Dungeons

> and Dragons (AD&D) role playing system. Through the information that I

> have taken from your listing above, you are mentioning other systems

> that are not for sale in this auction, as an example, Middle Earth Role

> Playing (MERP), and Iron Crown Enterprises (ICE) role playing games. You

> are also mentioning products that are not for sale such as board games,

> action figures and comics. You have also include keywords in your

> description that would not be permitted for the reasons stated above,

> keywords, items that are not offered in this listing and brand names

> that are not associated with this product. Examples of these are the

> different editions of AD&D books, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance,

> Ravenloft, etc.. While these are associated with the gaming and fantasy

> fiction world, your listing is not for these items as books, or gaming

> systems, or action figures, or comics or any variation of the words that

> you have included in your auction descriptions.

>

> Due to the excessive use of keyword terms in your auction listings, and

> for the integrity of the search engine, your listings were removed by

> eBay.  Please know that the fees associated with these listings were

> returned to you when eBay removed them from the site. Unfortunately, as

> your listings were in violation of eBay policy and were removed from the

> site, they can no longer be viewed or accessed on the site. Because of

> this, we are unable to return a copy of your listings to you. In future,

> I would recommend that you save a copy of your listings for back up

> purposes.

>

> I am unable to provide you with any information as to how your listings

> were reported. This is for the privacy of all of our members and by

> doing so, I would be breaching the eBay Privacy Policy. I'm sure that

> you can appreciate the same level of privacy with regards to your own

> listings, account history, and identity.

>

> As mentioned above, the eBay Community Watch Team reviews all reported

> listings for listing policy and User Agreement violations. After

> extensive review of the listings, appropriate action is taken with

> respect to the policies and guidelines that sellers agree to abide by

> when listing their items for sale on the site.

>

> I understand that you are an upstanding member of the community and that

> you had no intention of violating these policies. Please understand that

> this action was in no way meant to discriminate against you or single

> you out. We really do appreciate those members that seek to comply with

> our listing policies as they are a benefit to the site and to the

> community as a whole.

>

> I would recommend that you review the Search Manipulation policy and the

> links policy for a better understanding of how these policies affect

> your future listings. Please visit the following URLs:

>

> eBay: Redirect

>

> Links policy

>

> If you should wish to report future items which you believe to be in

> violation, you can do so through the webform by following the

> instructions below:

>

> 1) Visit: Rules for listings

>

> 2) From the list of policies presented, click the link for the most

> appropriate listing policy which you believe the reported listing

> violates.

>

> 3) Once the policy page is displayed, scroll to the bottom of that page

> and click the link labeled: "Report listing violations or problems with

> another eBay member".

>

> 4) When the 'Self-Help Webform' is displayed, enter the item number(s)

> you are reporting.

>

> When submitting a report to eBay please keep in mind the following:

>

> - It can take up to 72 hours before the Community Watch team reviews the

> reported listing(s).

>

> - If a violation is in fact confirmed, this may result in a warning to

> the seller or the termination of the auction listing(s).

>

> Thank you in advance for your understanding, and cooperation. I wish you

> the best with your future listings.

>

> Regards,

>

> Noland

> eBay Community Watch
> __



MY RETORT

Hello,



Thanks for the speedy and detailed reply.  This has cleared many of the

issues and question which I had been experiencing.



However, I still have some concerns:



1.  I received the listing fees after the auctions were cancelled.  However,

many of the books were relisted from auctions that were not successful.

Since they went unsold the first time and the second time they were

cancelled by Ebay, I am informed that they do not qualify for reimbursement

of the listing fees should they sell again.  This is wrong.



2.  Again, I would have gladly changed the listings if I was given a warning

of some sort.  As Ebay has a plethora of rules and regulations, many of

which are unclear or vague, I am sure that there are multitudes of

individuals who do not realize that their listings are in violation.  Please

accept my opinion and consider it in future decisions.



3.  Below, you state:  " Also we must enforce such policies in an effort to

establish an equal playing field for our members."  Excuse the harsh tone,

but this is a line of bull.  Ebay care nothing about equality, so long as

Ebay is getting paid.  If Ebay truly meant this, they would give all of

their listing upgrades, selling tools, etc. to each and every Ebay listing

for free.  For example, do you really belive that a $0.01 (or even a $100)

listing of an item without any upgrades will have the same chance to sell

and will sell at the same price as an exact duplicate of that item with

bold, gallery, highlight, a picture pack, 10-day auction, subtitle, listing

designer, border, featured, and BIN chance to sell Be realistic about

comments like this, Ebay does not care if you have an edge in your listings,

as long as you are paying Ebay for the edge.  The answer is simply no.  Even

Ebay emails and mail state a percentage at which items will sell better and

for more money based on each upgrade!!!  This is simple economic blackmail

and hipocrisy.  An even more evident example is the ability to list in two

categories.  Part of the issue with my listings is that supposedly, many

people who will search for an item may be broght to one of mine by mistake

becasue of a key word.  How is this any different and more advantageous that

if someone pays extra to list in two categories?  For that matter, paying

for feature automatically entitles an item to be first on the list every

time AND receives and extra listing where the item would normally appear

based on the choice for sorting the list...is this not an unfair advantage?

The problem that Ebay has with my uneducated violation lay not in the means,

but in the end, meaning I was not charged by Ebay for what Ebay views as an

unfair advantage.



4.  I can appreciate the disclosure act concerns regarding informing a

reported individual how the information about their listing was acquired.

But I also believe that as an American I have the right to defnend myself

and to confront my accuser.  I did not ask that you give me a name, address,

phone number, etc, only if it was reported by an Ebay member and if so, the

ID.  I would want to block such a person from future listings and would of

course not want to bid on their items.  Of course, this may indeed be the

reason behind the refusal to disclose.  Why would Ebay want to inform me

when it may cost Ebay money from future sales from me and by me with another

individual that may have reported me.



5.  Being that I have listed thousands of items on Ebay over the past few

years with the same type of description in almost all of them, I find it

hard to believe that Ebay actually polices any of the auctions for such

violations.  I truly in my heart believe that without someone informing Ebay

of my mistakes, I would still be listing with the same violations and would

until reported.  I would still be ignorant of my mistakes.  Ebay would have

no cause to stop such activities as to do so would hurt Ebay's pocket.



Thanks again for the response.  I look forward to your opinions and insight

on the above observations.



MORE TO COME


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:19 am 
 

Have you noticed that e bay is beginning to sell this same service to its members?



I have seen in the e bay main page some small banners detailing a keyword indexing service hosted by them - and offering at their usual small charges.



So, no doubt that doing the same all by yourself in the item description would hurt their fledgling business...



...



penny-pinching bastards



...

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Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:58 pm 
 

I'll give eBay one thing, that was a long, pleasent, and personal repsonse.

Not just a form reply.  I know you're still peeved, but at least someone ther took the time to respond to you.  That alone is hard to come by these days. :)


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:44 pm 
 

MrFilthyIke wrote:I'll give eBay one thing, that was a long, pleasent, and personal repsonse.

Not just a form reply. I know you're still peeved, but at least someone ther took the time to respond to you. That alone is hard to come by these days. :)




Indeed...I was pleasantly surprised in that regard as well... 8O


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:22 pm 
 

That's only because they're playing dirty... only chance.



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Post Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:15 pm 
 

THE LATEST:





Thank you for taking the time to write eBay with your concerns. I'm

happy to help you further.



Please allow me to address your concerns in point form for clarity sake:



1) When an auction ends and is unsold, relisting the item is free only

if the item sells the second time around.  Because your listing fees for

the auctions that eBay removed have been refunded to your account, you

have not lost any fees.  In other words, you would have still paid the

*initial* listing fee for each auction.  Selling the unsold items on the

second go around (the relisted items) only means that you would not have

been charged an *additional* listing fee.  Because we credited your

initial fees for all auctions, you have sustained no loss.



2) We appreciate that many of our members wish to receive warning

notices in which to comply with our policies by making changes to such

listings.  In many cases, it is our preference to warn our members of

violations and allow them the opportunity to bring their future listings

into compliance.  However, there are times when an auction end is

appropriate.   This was one of those instances.  I'm sorry that you feel

this is a 'line of bull'.  As for your comment about listing fees, this

is beyond the purview of The Community Watch Team or the actions taken

on your listing.



3) You asked: "Part of the issue with my listings is that supposedly,

many people who will search for an item may be broght to one of mine by

mistake becasue of a key word.  How is this any different and more

advantageous that if someone pays extra to list in two categories? "



Response:



Including an extra keyword is different because this violates our Search

Manipulation policy and is not permitted.  The listing upgrades you

describe are intended to have your listings visually 'stand out' using

compliant methods and not one that returns irrelevant search results to

our members.



4) While I can appreciate that you may wish to know the User ID of the

member who reported your listing (if your listings were in fact reported

by another member), please understand that due to our Privacy Policy, we

would not be at liberty to disclose this information.  Also, The

Community Watch Team does not have access to this information. eBay is a

venue, not a court of law.  As such, there is  no true 'accuser'

reporting you for a criminal or civil offence for which you need to

defend yourself.    



Our reports system uses *item numbers* that are submitted via a webform.

Each reported listing number is then reviewed by a human.  Based on the

information provided in the listing title and description, an assessment

is made in accordance with our listing policies and guidelines to

determine if a violation exists.  In other words, The Community Watch

Team must take each listing at 'face value'.  Appropriate action is

taken on those listings that are found in violation.  As such, the best

way to ensure that that your listings are not affected is to list them

in compliance of our various policies and User Agreement.



5) We appreciate your business and the fact that you have been a member

of eBay since August 2001.  However, if you have listed items in a way

that is contradictory to our listing policies, they have simply slipped

by us.  Please take the time now to review our various policies to

ensure that your future listings are compliant.



For a better understanding of our listing guidelines and how they affect

the way you list your items, please visit the following URL:



Rules for listings



It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing eBay.



Regards,



Pablo

eBay Community Watch







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Post Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:03 am 
 

I think I might put up a dictionary for sale with a description that reads '.... and contains entries for the following words ....' :D


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Post Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:51 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I think I might put up a dictionary for sale with a description that reads '.... and contains entries for the following words ....' :D
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :wink:


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Post Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:44 pm 
 

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... 9&rd=1
According to the posts above, this one is definately not following E-Bay's rules......


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:41 pm 
 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 93426&rd=1

get a load of this one!!! wtf has OCE and white box got to do with this auction???!!! :evil:



  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:13 pm 
 

[quote="morgansurname"]Below I have cut and pasted the latest letter I received from Ebay and my responses. I th ought the conversation might be interesting and entertaining.  :wink:

FROM ME:

Message: Hello, I received multiple notices that my auction were in
> violation of Ebay policy. Evidently, my search modifiers constitute
> "search manipulation". Also, a link that I provide to a website with
> picutures and a description of individual items was mentioned as a
> violation of another sort. I have been reselling on Ebay for over three
> years off and on. I was a Powerseller until recently when my health
> took a turn for the worse. I was unaware of these violations. My
> concern includes the following questions which I would like answered:
> 1. Why was I not given a warning and an opportunity to edit the
> listings as this was my first warning? 2. Who reported these
> violations? 3. Who makes the decision to cancel auctions in such
> cases? 4. Will I be reimbursed for the listing fees? 5. I would
> request that the auctions be reinstated and that I be able to edit them
> to remove all and any infringements. I would do so asap. I have
> attempted to be as best of an exa!
> mple of a Ebay community member as possible. I will continue to do so.
> However, I feel that this sudden and permanent decision to be a bit
> extreme for a first warning....



I got hit a few years ago, although I considered my violation to be less serious and I was allowed to keep the 80 or so items up that were to be cancelled by arguing my case (I was lucky in that they actually PHONED me at home and I just happened to answer!) although I did have to remove the "offending" material.  The Ebay agent like yours I'll grant was very polite but I think the problem was simple ignorance rather than strict application of the rules.  He objected to the statement of rulesbooks being used with "any of the Dungeons & Dragons game worlds including Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, etc".  I contended that the rules supplements and rulebooks indicated COULD be used with ANY D&D gameworld and that the problem was simply ignorance on the part of the Ebay spotter. I didnt' have the statements on all of my items, only the items that could legitimately fall under that category.  I pretty much have discovered by now that ANY listing on Ebay can fall under the Keyword Listing or Search Manipulation guidelines depending on how hard or strictly you want to apply the rules.
  Evidence of this was a recent notice that is forcing me to change my tagline...It goes like this " If you're interested in sf or fantasy RPGs and paperbacks, check out my Ebay store and other auctions...thanks!"  Apparantly, common words like "fantasy", "paperbacks" and "sf" when not applied DIRECTLY to an item being sold are considered Search Manipulation.  Next, words like "store", "auction" and "interested" will start making the list!!! Now I know this is crap but you get no where by arguing with EBay so reluctantly I'm having to remove the "offending" passage from my listings, but I did rationally discuss it with a Ebay employee and he basically admitted than whenever a Search Manipulation violation is reported they pretty much have to take action, no matter what the circumstance!!!!!  Oh well that's the price of doing business on Ebay. It doesn't help when everyday I see much more blatant violations go uncheckec...

Mike B.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:45 am 
 

if they want to be so anal about it - are you not violating too, when you say "please have a look at my other RPG auctions" ?

i think its a load of old cobblers - and it really pisses me off when you are at least a decent businessman and there are cretins here there and everywhere who are blatantly getting away with murder right under their noses. they are so busy wasting their time on all the fickle shit, they are not taking any notice of the stuff that actually DOES matter....

Al



  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:if they want to be so anal about it - are you not violating too, when you say "please have a look at my other RPG auctions" ?

i think its a load of old cobblers - and it really pisses me off when you are at least a decent businessman and there are cretins here there and everywhere who are blatantly getting away with murder right under their noses. they are so busy wasting their time on all the fickle shit, they are not taking any notice of the stuff that actually DOES matter....

Al


I think what galls most sellers is that the rules are applied very unevenly.  Basically, you can literally fly under the radar for years (as Morgans did, and as I did with my "Check out my other auctions" listing) because despite what they say, if there is no complaint they will never cite you.  I just redid all my Judges Guild listings in my Ebay store this morning, I found some that had been sitting there for a couple of years, and notice highly illegal Paypal boxes (the ones that are very, very large and not allowed on ebay listings any longer) on about five of them.  So basically, I wasn't found out on these even though they sat there on my items description pages for at least two years.  
   When I was talking to the ebay guy on the phone years ago, he pretty much admitted that almost all their keyword and search manipulation citings came from tipsters.  I guess the only solution is to rat out as many sellers as you can, thus keeping the Ebay police far away from your own listings as they run around trying to cancel the sales of other scofflaws....
   You also have to remember that citing someone for keyword or search manipulation is a relatively straightforward task;  either you are doing it or you aren't.  Catching someone shilling or stealing from buyers is a bit harder and requires slightly more investigative, hands on work, and thus probably gets very slight notice as it requires more time on Ebay's part, and time is money.

Mike B.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:41 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:if they want to be so anal about it - are you not violating too, when you say "please have a look at my other RPG auctions" ?

i think its a load of old cobblers - and it really pisses me off when you are at least a decent businessman and there are cretins here there and everywhere who are blatantly getting away with murder right under their noses. they are so busy wasting their time on all the fickle shit, they are not taking any notice of the stuff that actually DOES matter....

Al


I think what galls most sellers is that the rules are applied very unevenly.  Basically, you can literally fly under the radar for years (as Morgans did, and as I did with my "Check out my other auctions" listing) because despite what they say, if there is no complaint they will never cite you.  I just redid all my Judges Guild listings in my Ebay store this morning, I found some that had been sitting there for a couple of years, and notice highly illegal Paypal boxes (the ones that are very, very large and not allowed on ebay listings any longer) on about five of them.  So basically, I wasn't found out on these even though they sat there on my items description pages for at least two years.  
   When I was talking to the ebay guy on the phone years ago, he pretty much admitted that almost all their keyword and search manipulation citings came from tipsters.  I guess the only solution is to rat out as many sellers as you can, thus keeping the Ebay police far away from your own listings as they run around trying to cancel the sales of other scofflaws....
   You also have to remember that citing someone for keyword or search manipulation is a relatively straightforward task;  either you are doing it or you aren't.  Catching someone shilling or stealing from buyers is a bit harder and requires slightly more investigative, hands on work, and thus probably gets very slight notice as it requires more time on Ebay's part, and time is money.

Mike B.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:49 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
morgansurname wrote:Below I have cut and pasted the latest letter I received from Ebay and my responses. I th ought the conversation might be interesting and entertaining. :wink:

FROM ME:

Message: Hello, I received multiple notices that my auction were in
> violation of Ebay policy. Evidently, my search modifiers constitute
> "search manipulation". Also, a link that I provide to a website with
> picutures and a description of individual items was mentioned as a
> violation of another sort. I have been reselling on Ebay for over three
> years off and on. I was a Powerseller until recently when my health
> took a turn for the worse. I was unaware of these violations. My
> concern includes the following questions which I would like answered:
> 1. Why was I not given a warning and an opportunity to edit the
> listings as this was my first warning? 2. Who reported these
> violations? 3. Who makes the decision to cancel auctions in such
> cases? 4. Will I be reimbursed for the listing fees? 5. I would
> request that the auctions be reinstated and that I be able to edit them
> to remove all and any infringements. I would do so asap. I have
> attempted to be as best of an exa!
> mple of a Ebay community member as possible. I will continue to do so.
> However, I feel that this sudden and permanent decision to be a bit
> extreme for a first warning....



I got hit a few years ago, although I considered my violation to be less serious and I was allowed to keep the 80 or so items up that were to be cancelled by arguing my case (I was lucky in that they actually PHONED me at home and I just happened to answer!) although I did have to remove the "offending" material. The Ebay agent like yours I'll grant was very polite but I think the problem was simple ignorance rather than strict application of the rules. He objected to the statement of rulesbooks being used with "any of the Dungeons & Dragons game worlds including Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, etc". I contended that the rules supplements and rulebooks indicated COULD be used with ANY D&D gameworld and that the problem was simply ignorance on the part of the Ebay spotter. I didnt' have the statements on all of my items, only the items that could legitimately fall under that category. I pretty much have discovered by now that ANY listing on Ebay can fall under the Keyword Listing or Search Manipulation guidelines depending on how hard or strictly you want to apply the rules.
Evidence of this was a recent notice that is forcing me to change my tagline...It goes like this " If you're interested in sf or fantasy RPGs and paperbacks, check out my Ebay store and other auctions...thanks!" Apparantly, common words like "fantasy", "paperbacks" and "sf" when not applied DIRECTLY to an item being sold are considered Search Manipulation. Next, words like "store", "auction" and "interested" will start making the list!!! Now I know this is crap but you get no where by arguing with EBay so reluctantly I'm having to remove the "offending" passage from my listings, but I did rationally discuss it with a Ebay employee and he basically admitted than whenever a Search Manipulation violation is reported they pretty much have to take action, no matter what the circumstance!!!!! Oh well that's the price of doing business on Ebay. It doesn't help when everyday I see much more blatant violations go uncheckec...

Mike B.
I am sorry...but this is just pure b.s. Like I said above, you can do whatever you want in your listings, as long as you pay for it by using Ebays little extras.  Even more ignorant is the fact that most of our listings fit into the Ebay category:
Home > All Categories > Toys & Hobbies > Games > Role Playing > Fantasy > !!!!! :roll: There is also:  All Categories > Toys & Hobbies > Games > Role Playing > Science Fiction.

Might as well just list the pic and the title....a$$holes....


May Eru's light shine upon you always.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:32 am 
 

Mike B.[/quote]I am sorry...but this is just pure b.s. Like I said above, you can do whatever you want in your listings, as long as you pay for it by using Ebays little extras. Even more ignorant is the fact that most of our listings fit into the Ebay category:
Home > All Categories > Toys & Hobbies > Games > Role Playing > Fantasy > !!!!! :roll: There is also: All Categories > Toys & Hobbies > Games > Role Playing > Science Fiction.

Might as well just list the pic and the title....a$$holes....[/quote]

Oh I've complained to Ebay before about what I consider unfair application of Keyword/Search manipulation. For example if I really wanted to shoehorn the words "paperback" and "fantasy" and "RPG" into my listings it would be a relatively easy task, a fact of which Ebay reps has AGREED with me on occasions. AS LONG AS IT IS WITHIN THE ITEM DESCRIPTION.  So, it ends up as long as you can manipulate the system by the rules, you can basically bend the rules to your advantage. Remember, perception is reality to them...unfortunately, knowing you are right doesn't help you if they decide you are wrong because they are the final arbiters.  The phrase I had was just a simple one at the end of my listings and not meant to manipulate anything, but I'll remove it if it makes them happy mostly because there is no other choice.  
  This doesn't even begin to cover the fact that you are allowed to quote from the dust jacket/back cover of items, which may contain tons of keywords (just use quote marks to indicate this).  But this is ok within the letter of the law as long as it is only a certain size (I forget how big it can be).  So just fabricate a long, lenghty quote from the back of a D&D book that mentions lots of interesting RPG info!!!!

Mike B.

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