harami2000 wrote:beyondthebreach wrote:Your reasoning is sound and I would expect the foldered version to sell for more at auction . . . ideally ongoing valuations will determine how collector's feel about this and if the "foldered" version, ultimately proves the more valuable. For a long time we've been stuck with the unfoldered version as the official "first print" despite several dissenting voices in previous discussions, PMs and emails.The near-blanket insistence on not valuing a "second print"/perceived "second print" higher than the "first" has also been unhelpful. (Scott's comment about "collecting mystique" (paraphr.) and all that jazz...).Ian followed the "status quo" and got that one in the neck.(aside: "Ongoing valuations" would of course now follow the false premise which led Ian (and many others) to bid so high... Has become a self-fulfilling prophesy, there.The GenCon auctions would have been a better indication, perhaps. $275 was their limit and people there weren't short of a few dollars).
beyondthebreach wrote:Your reasoning is sound and I would expect the foldered version to sell for more at auction . . . ideally ongoing valuations will determine how collector's feel about this and if the "foldered" version, ultimately proves the more valuable.
Second Edition. Rhea Shelly sent me this description:The cover (also courtesy Rhea Shelley and a good hour of playing with my image processing software) is an all black folder with red letters that say "Dungeon Masters Kit - Number 1 Palace of the Vampire Queen". The Palace of the... part is written in all capital gothic type letters. There is a small drawing of the left half of a tower (cut vertically) with a mountain in the back ground (left side only). All of this is done in the same red as the letters. The back of the folder is blank. It's on white loose leaf paper, except for the contents sheet, which is yellow. The paper size is 8 1/2 x 11. It says "1st Printing June 1976, Copyright June 1976" on a piece of paper taped to the inside of the folder. Third Edition. Still labeled "First Printing", this one is a number of loose pages in a plastic bag. Compared with the first edition, there are a few differences - first, it has the player's and GM's maps put together on five pages (front side GM's, back side player's maps of the five levels) whereas the first edition had the maps printed on one side of the paper only. Second, there is an additional cover page with the title and a crude drawing on it. The page with the printing and distribution information is the same as in edition one.
mbassoc2003 wrote:If the 'first' and 'second' prints of PoVQ were printed at the same time, surely they are both first edition prints?Surely what we have here is 'first edition with folder' and 'first edition without folder'?.
Third Edition. Still labeled "First Printing"
Deadlord36 wrote:That is exactly what happened, clarkie. I went thru this in a thread last year (or maybe 2 years ago). The 2nd printing is actually the unfoldered version with the yellow cover sheet, and the booklets are third and fourth respectively. The bagged "1st printings" were leftovers.I spoke with a gentleman long ago who distinctly remembers wanting to buy PoVQ when it came out, and not having the $$. When he had saved up enough and went back to the same store he always went to, the foldered version was gone, and he got a bagged copy. He recalled it well, according to him, because he thought the folder was neat, and the store owner told him they didn't have any more folder versions, they had bagged, and that they couldn't get foldered ones anymore. He said they had multiples copies there (2 I think, but I am not positive), and he bought one. I did see pictures of his copy, and he had no reason to lie, I did not even bring up the subject of 1st/2nd prints. I just mentioned to him that I had a PoVQ. He asked if it had a folder, I said yes, and that was when he told me.Soooooooooooooooo.......... that is why I am 100% sure of the chronology.
mbassoc2003 wrote:If you label them first distribution, second distribution etc. you devalue anything that you have not labelled 'first distribution'. You are assigning preference and priority to an indivitual print run.If you label them 'first edition with cover' and 'first edition without cover' and you do not assign a chronology to it, then you do not devalue the items.
bclarkie wrote:..... in the end it may be best to simply list both as 1st prints with/without cover.
mbassoc2003 wrote:If the 'first' and 'second' prints of PoVQ were printed at the same time, surely they are both first edition prints?We don't say Jade Hare first print and Jade Hare second print.Surely what we have here is 'first edition with folder' and 'first edition without folder'?Why is there an arguement here about the order in which these were printed. I'm sure my Jade Hare came off the presses before some of those owned by some of the collectors here, and I'm sure it came off the press after some of those. But we're talking about a single print run here.Why the need for a priority of one over another? Why a need to value one over another?They should both be considered first edition copies, with and without folder.
mbassoc2003 wrote:So, if you have a 'first print with folder' and 'first print without folder', is the edition with the yellow drawn cover (presently a third edition' actually the second print run? The expence of the black folder would explain the need for the yellow drawn cover on a subsequent printing.
mbassoc2003 wrote:How does one then explain the double sided printing vs. single sided printing issues. Maybe the double sided copies are genuine, and single sided copies were copies that hobby shops ran off themselves at local copy shops?
mbassoc2003 wrote:There are too many unknowns here to make blanket statements as to chronology and value, as the same unknowns could be said to surround genuine copy versus counterfeit copy.
mbassoc2003 wrote:Haw about putting your's up, David? I'll bid on the folder.
Deadlord36 wrote:I know of another person who has a single-sided copy. Perhaps we should tally up the totals of the single and double. Perhaps they ran off single-sided ones first, and thought that they didn't fit as well in the folder as doubles. There are a million theories, but the only thing I have ever found hard evidence to support is the folder being a 1st print.
Deadlord36 wrote:Regardless of what opinions are, there should certainly be no distinction printwise between the two. It would be like saying the coverless Jade Hare was a 1st print, and the covered one a 2nd.
harami2000 wrote:(Especially when you've got your own wounds to lick...)