PDFs to use, books to collect
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Post Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 1:57 am 
 

afoolandhis$ wrote:So Ian, I take it that's NOT the Fez 1 you've got up for sale at the moment?  :P

Unfortunately, Stephen, that is the Fez I that's up for auction at the moment.  :D

Someone else mentioned downloading PDFs off the net. I won't download PDFs off the internet. I did buy a few Judges Guild items and ToEE from the approves ESD retailers, but on the whole I prefer larger file sizes and better quality files. So I have had to resort to making my own. If you want something done right, do it yourself.


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Post Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:59 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:It's kinda like making it illegal to use or sell drugs, but not illegal to own them. If you're a seller you could only ever be prosecuted for selling a single fix, and as ownership is not a crime, there is no such thing as intent to supply.

Strange, but true. :?:

Pretty loose laws all round. :D :( :?:


That made me laugh pretty hard.

Just for your information, in Italy you CAN use drugs and OWN them - if they are for your personal use - but NOT sell them.

And so we're talking about silliness for shelling out hundreds of dollars for a printed booklet with bad illustrations?

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:37 am 
 

Raise Dead.....

It works! Raised this thread from the dead on account of me reassessing my current stance/opinion on PDF's, their propogation, and their impact on the collecting and games market.

Has anyone here ever NOT bought an item they were considering buying, having viewed the PDF and decided that the PDF would do just fine, or that the book was not what you wanted and the PDF told you that?

What I'm getting at, is, "Is the availability of PDFs directly impacting on the sale of hardcopies?" And, "If so, is that a bad thing?"


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:39 pm 
 

I have located PDFs and as a result, it has meant I have then purchased the hardcopy or added the hardcopy to my future 'Want' list.

Some will not be purchased for ages due to them not becoming available very often, despite not being what I would call rare (i.e. Forgotten Realms boxsets)

I've printed out one or two of the PDFs, but I have a slow B&W printer (that still uses toner), so its not great. But they have given me the chance to check the quality and I will buy them one day.

As I've stated in another thread, I view it as a library service. I most certainly would not download PDFs then sell them or distribute them to anyone who asked.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:35 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Raise Dead.....

It works! Raised this thread from the dead on account of me reassessing my current stance/opinion on PDF's, their propogation, and their impact on the collecting and games market.

Has anyone here ever NOT bought an item they were considering buying, having viewed the PDF and decided that the PDF would do just fine, or that the book was not what you wanted and the PDF told you that?

What I'm getting at, is, "Is the availability of PDFs directly impacting on the sale of hardcopies?" And, "If so, is that a bad thing?"


I have never not bought an item due to having the PDF but I know at least 3 or 4 people between my two gaming groups that just use PDF's


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:50 pm 
 

I have gotten my hands on a PDF and decided not to purchase a product as a result.

However, I have also gotten a pdf that made me want to purchase an item that I later did purchase (the Swords & Wizardry rules are one example).

In the last few years, I have been using PDFs to DM from more and more due to simple convenience (as well as using my laptop instead of a DM screen).

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:32 pm 
 

If both are available, I go right for the printed version.  If it's pdf only, then I get that.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:58 pm 
 

Personally I struggle to read anything off a computer screen and love to hold a book.
I'll use pdf as a way of judging whether or not I'll buy a hard copy.  I'll always want to have a hard copy, pdf's may help me decide to buy (or not).

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:09 pm 
 

I buy a horrific amount of PDFs. I collect the things and for the most part I do not by hardcopies. But to put this in perspective, I'm not an active player, and I dip in and out of things and read sections rather than cover to cover, and PDFs are good for that sort of thing.

Also they provide no storage problem, unless you don't back up your harddrive. But I suppost a good EMP would wipe out my entire collection, the same way a good house fire would wipe out games room. Only you can't buy insurance for your data, espectially the stuff you've created yourself.

I know PDFs are available on Torrent, and I'm wondering how much of an impact those downloads are having on the games industry. I suspect WoTC for instance have saturated the market with so much sh!te and drivel in hardback form that people are not gonna be buying 4E Players Handbook 3 when they've just blown the better part of their income over the past five years on a shedload of 3.5E hardbacks. There must be over a hundred 3.5E and 4E hardcovers, and that surely makes downloading Torrents the better choice for the sensible active gamer. WotC are taking the piss out of gamers it would seem. So in that respect, WotC are actively promoting piracy of their products.

Outside of the WotC model however, I would suggest the propogation of pirate PDFs is not as great, and not having such an impact on the promotion of companies' products. Goodman Games for example seem to still be banging out both legit PDFs and hardcopies, and their business seems to be stonger for it. The same goes for Troll Lord Games. Yes, there may well be copies of their stuff on Torrent, but the price point of their products, and the instant availability of legitimate PDFs seem to keep making sales.

The moral lesson to be learnt here seems to be, if you take the piss out of your customer base and try to screw them over, they'll just shaft you back. If you trat them sensibly and reasonably, for the large part they'll treat you honestly and reasonably in return.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:46 pm 
 

I have purchased PDF versions of game publications and have been horrified by what a game company apparently believed was worth $5.  (And I have said so in a couple of scathing reviews online.)

I have been slower to collect a couple of items because a PDF made the purchase less urgent.

For the most part, owning a PDF is not not not the same thing as actually owning a publication.   It's the same for music and albums.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:59 pm 
 

I guess us old timers feel the same way about minis and those cheap rubbery plastic crap things kids play D&D with today.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:04 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I guess us old timers feel the same way about minis and those cheap rubbery plastic crap things kids play D&D with today.


Them darn kids and their newfangled miniatures!  :x

I remember when miniatures were made of rocks!  :D

(I once actually staged a wargame using rocks and pinecones as armies.   :lol: )


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:13 pm 
 

Dont see how you can get a PDF of a miniature...  :lol:
That said, even if it is possible, I would still rather have the real thing. 8)


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:00 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I guess us old timers feel the same way about minis and those cheap rubbery plastic crap things kids play D&D with today.


Yeah, I know how you feel.  I like minis with some weight to them.  Even lead minis are wimpy compared to depleted plutonium!  Now THOSE suckers were HEAVY!  8O   Of course, the side effects were pretty bad with deformed children and strange rashes, but NOBODY messed with my minis!   :wink:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:44 am 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:Dont see how you can get a PDF of a miniature...  :lol:
That said, even if it is possible, I would still rather have the real thing. 8)


Actually, they do sell PDF's of miniatures.  8O

They are intended as cardstock miniatures to be printed out, glued to cardboard (or whatever) and stood up on bases.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:47 am 
 

:D  :lol:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:41 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
Actually, they do sell PDF's of miniatures.  8O

They are intended as cardstock miniatures to be printed out, glued to cardboard (or whatever) and stood up on bases.


Maybe useable in the 1st edition Blood Bowl game then??  :lol:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:03 pm 
 

Real live fire elementals.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:29 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
Actually, they do sell PDF's of miniatures.  8O

They are intended as cardstock miniatures to be printed out, glued to cardboard (or whatever) and stood up on bases.

8O

Somehow I am not too surprised by that news.
And thanks for the info.
I would still rather have the metal Minis.
Heck, plastic Minis would be better than paper minis...


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:55 pm 
 

The plastic ones are sh!te, but then I've seen way too many badly painted minis. Maybe being able to buy cheap plastic ready painted minis is a good thing for most players who don't have the interest or ability to paint their own.


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