Shady dealers of the past
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:20 pm 
 

Alright, so we've narrowed the problems down that you have with us.

Let me explain to you a few things about the software we use:

It basically copies everything over from our website into ebay. Occassionally we like to quality control this, so we buy our own items. Whenever an item is purchased off of Ebay, using the ebay email that is sent to our account, the item is automatically entered in as an order on our website. So, we just like to make sure the things are working correctly. Incidentally, the same software automatically posts feedback when it is posted for us. In the future, I'll talk with Jon (renvhoek - the owner of trollandtoad) about making a dummy item called test, to test our software, so that there can be no confusion or hard feelings.

I understand there was a problem with the pictures thing. Needless to say, the person who did that is no longer working for the company, and I believe that all the pictures that we currently have up are our own. You're welcome to double check them all if you think I'm wrong.  It's a very special concern to me, and I really don't want us getting anymore negative attention because of it.

Regarding Prices, we don't actually ever make anyone buy anything from us. Although, I agree that some of our prices look kinda high, and I will be double checking them shortly. For instance, the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil mentioned above... the price on that one appears to be just plain silly (even though we've sold 2 of them in the last 3 months... which leads me to believe it's not that bad after all)  I do think there is a problem with quite a few of our prices, though, and it is something that I'm going to look into. But There are quite a few items on our website that have great prices.. mainly newer books, but there are a few older. (We have some 1st edition hardcovers in lower condition for $6-$8 quite often).

So that basically covers everything. I think I've been pretty fair and straightforward with my posts, and I hope that I've made some impact here. We certainly would rather have friends than enemies. 8P

BTW Thanks All for Welcoming me here.
-Jason





Hi Jason, unfortunately it has absolutely nothing to do with BINs at all. I could really care less.  It has everything to do with the fact that your prices in a lot of circumstances are ridiculously high and in the rest of those circumstances they are down right insulting.   Also, when someone from your store comes on here and actually tries to condesend me the way that was attempted, what kind of response did you expect?

Additionally, despite what the previous posters claim was, it is absolutely 100% against Ebay's rules to buy from yourself whether or not you are "testing out your new software" as was claimed.   Just so you know, I even emailed Ebay just to be sure.  Even if that was truly the case where you were "testing out new software", then why did you guys also find the need to leave yourselves feedback?

So in conclusion,  "ridiculous prices" + "stealing other people pictures and claiming them as your own"+ "shilling" + "lying about your shilling" + "coming on here trying to make me look like an ass"= not too many good things are going to be said by me.
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:52 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:So in conclusion,  "ridiculous prices" + "stealing other people pictures and claiming them as your own"+ "shilling" + "lying about your shilling" + "coming on here trying to make me look like an ass"= not too many good things are going to be said by me.

But if you look beyond all that . . .   :D

  


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:58 am 
 

jhaynes01 wrote:Regarding Prices, we don't actually ever make anyone buy anything from us. Although, I agree that some of our prices look kinda high, and I will be double checking them shortly.

The concern isn't high prices.  (If I had a nickel for every RPG seller with high prices, I'd have at least three bucks.  Maybe even more!)  The concern is predatorially high prices on rare items.

As an example, pricing a Tsojconth at $2000 is so far off the chart it makes you look downright greedy.  That's only one example, but it certainly isn't helping your image.  You'd serve your own interests by reviewing your entire "Dungeons & Dragons RARE items!" section.  The Acaeum is an excellent reference point, incidentally.

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:55 pm 
 

Regarding the rare stuff:

We've Sold the following in 2006 at our prices:

2 Copies of Quest for the Fazzlewood
2 Copies of Lost Caverns of Tsojconth
Various other rare stuff.

We price them according to our cost of replacement, which, should we have to bid on them at auction is usually pretty high. If I'm not mistaken, and I'm sure you guys would know, but a Lost Caverns of Tsojconth went over $2000 on ebay last year, and it wasn't one of ours.

Simply put, If it's selling at these prices, and going high on ebay at auction, then our price is probably not far off the mark. If things are selling at a decent rate period, then our price is probably not far off the mark. If it's not selling for us, then our price is definitely wrong. There's very few D&D items though, from my initial inspection, that are not selling for us at our current prices.

Our primary goal for the D&D Dept. is not to have the cheapest prices on the net, but to have everything in stock that people would like to buy.

I still agree that some of our prices need revising but not necessarily the rarities.

Thank You for the advice, though, I will take a look at that entire section.

I'm kinda new to the boards here, so is this a discuession that should be moved to somewhere else besides the "Shady Dealers" Section? Honestly, I don't think we should even be in this section. 8P Just because we have higher prices than some does not mean we are bad folks.

-Jason


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:24 pm 
 

jhaynes01 wrote: Regarding the rare stuff:

We've Sold the following in 2006 at our prices:

2 Copies of Quest for the Fazzlewood
2 Copies of Lost Caverns of Tsojconth
Various other rare stuff.


That is kind of a vague reference.  Would you care to share what prices that you actually obtained for them and perhaps an auction link or store listing.  I expressly remember seeing you guys try and sell both Fazzlewood and Tsojconth on Ebay auctions several times at prices around $1600 BINs, all of which did not sell, perhaps I missed the ones that you are referencing.

jhaynes01 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, and I'm sure you guys would know, but a Lost Caverns of Tsojconth went over $2000 on ebay last year, and it wasn't one of ours.


There was one Tsojconth in early 2006 that went for $1895.00.  There was another Tsoj back in August of 2005 that went for $1850.00 This second was due to a newbie bidder who had no clue what the item was worth(and for that matter was never seen from or heard from again) and another bidder who posts here and who openly admitted that he got out of hand with the bidding on that.   Every other Tsoj that has sold since then has been for less than $1500(there was only one that went for that price) and couple of others that went for ~$1200.  The most recent one didn't even break $1125:


** expired eBay auction **


On top of that there was one in August that didn't even break $1000:


** expired eBay auction **


The fact of the matter is that from the last quarter of 2005 to second quater of 2006 there was a pretty substantial price surge on some of the rare items.  This however is and was a clear spike and not an indication continual market upswing.  This is evidenced by the now fading prices of the rare items since the middle of the year.


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche


Last edited by bclarkie on Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:25 pm 
 

Simply put, If it's selling at these prices, and going high on ebay at auction, then our price is probably not far off the mark. If things are selling at a decent rate period, then our price is probably not far off the mark. If it's not selling for us, then our price is definitely wrong. There's very few D&D items though, from my initial inspection, that are not selling for us at our current prices.


If you can get your price then you should be able to find some easy pickin's in my store.  I look at your prices and typically set my prices at 50-60% of yours. :!:

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:14 pm 
 

It's really just a question of business ethics. Pricing something in order to make a reasonable profit is quite OK. Pricing it stupidly in order to fuck people over is quite OK as well. Just don't complain if you land in Shady Dealer heaven. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass what you do. I actually enjoy perusing idiotic auction prices occasionally. It reinforces my low opinion of most resellers.
The WORST thing you can do is try to defend irrational pricing and illegal behavior here. Too many smart and attentive people.
Tsoj should never go over $1,300 or so under normal circumstances, and that is for a VERY nice copy.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:18 pm 
 

jhaynes01 wrote:I'm kinda new to the boards here, so is this a discuession that should be moved to somewhere else besides the "Shady Dealers" Section? Honestly, I don't think we should even be in this section. 8P Just because we have higher prices than some does not mean we are bad folks.

Since you're new, I'll try to give you some friendly advice.  You'll never appease your customer base by arguing with them directly -- the argument will simply escalate out of control and you'll come off looking even worse.  ;)

The best way to get "out" of this thread is to stop replying defensively, and to address the concerns of which you've now been made aware.  We're a pretty savvy group, and if you take steps to resolve the issues, you might actually gain a few customers in the end.

If you have a specific question/comment regarding pricing, you might start a new thread in the appraisal forum.  Similarily, if you have a particularly interesting item for sale, there is a Classifieds forum for that purpose.  (There's also a lot of collecting-specific stuff that may or may not interest you.)

 YIM  


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:46 pm 
 

Cool..

bclarkie I can't seem to pull up the information on the auction.. but it was probably the one you mentioned for $1895 that i was remembering. As for our sales data, I'll dig them up and post what i can. We sold all of those early this year, So i'll have to do a bit of searching. I don't believe they were ebay sales, though... i think the customers ordered them directly from our website, and I think we sold one of the Fazzlewoods at Gencon this year.

Given this info though, I'm sure you guys can see why when we originally priced those tsojconth's at $1999.95 that we thought it was a good price given the ebay research that must have been done back then.

All this noted, I am looking at our prices right now, and have noticed some things that will be lowered in price within the week.  :lol:

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:48 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Since you're new, I'll try to give you some friendly advice.  You'll never appease your customer base by arguing with them directly -- the argument will simply escalate out of control and you'll come off looking even worse.  ;)

The best way to get "out" of this thread is to stop replying defensively, and to address the concerns of which you've now been made aware.  We're a pretty savvy group, and if you take steps to resolve the issues, you might actually gain a few customers in the end.

If you have a specific question/comment regarding pricing, you might start a new thread in the appraisal forum.  Similarily, if you have a particularly interesting item for sale, there is a Classifieds forum for that purpose.  (There's also a lot of collecting-specific stuff that may or may not interest you.)


Awesome, thx for the advice. And thanks for helping to keep this conversation constructive.

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:51 pm 
 

Jason,

I am glad you have taken the time to respond to discussions on this board.

I think that a business with exceedingly high prices IS shady. You may have some items that are priced based on old/ (volatile) information as well, perhaps. Combine that with other issues mentioned earlier...

As for you buying your own BIN's, of course that's fine. The Ebay Test database is great but I would want to run a few items in Production as well before going full steam with a new program.

Brute

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:54 pm 
 

napoleonsdad wrote:
If you can get your price then you should be able to find some easy pickin's in my store.  I look at your prices and typically set my prices at 50-60% of yours. :!:


:twisted: I'll check out your store...

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:53 pm 
 

To me, it doesn't matter what your prices are, if you can get someone to buy a Tsoj for $2,000 then more power to you. I don't care if you charge $35 for shipping that Tsoj as long as the cost is upfront, which it is.  I think both prices are a bit high but it is your right to set prices as you see fit and you're not forcing anyone to buy so that's your business.  But you can't blame us for pointing out those high prices such as $35 for shipping one module and to have a chuckle and bit of snickering.  

Another reason why you ended in the shading seller thread is using stock photographs, or even photos from this site without attribution, for those really expensive items.  If you're going to sell something for $1,000 then it should be the photo of the actual item.  You say you've fixed that so that should be fine now...

Another reason you ended up in this thread is falsely attributing a set of TSR miniatures as produced for Cthulhu when they were not.  That could certainly be an error with no ill intention, but due to your history we might be a bit dubious.  

Take all these factors together, and maybe more that I'm forgetting, and you have the public relations problem that Troll and Toad has with some members of this board.  It could be rectified but time and actions will tell.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:25 pm 
 

VermilionFire wrote:Another reason why you ended in the shading seller thread

Please note, this is the shady seller thread.  Aspiring artists need not fret.  :lol:

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:11 pm 
 

VermilionFire wrote:To me, it doesn't matter what your prices are, if you can get someone to buy a Tsoj for $2,000 then more power to you. I don't care if you charge $35 for shipping that Tsoj as long as the cost is upfront, which it is.  I think both prices are a bit high but it is your right to set prices as you see fit and you're not forcing anyone to buy so that's your business.  But you can't blame us for pointing out those high prices such as $35 for shipping one module and to have a chuckle and bit of snickering.  


That is a good argument, because people should ultimately look out for themselves. But folks shopping at a respectable establishment should expect fair prices, and certainly should expect fair shipping.

Cheers  :D

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:32 pm 
 

brute wrote:
That is a good argument, because people should ultimately look out for themselves. But folks shopping at a respectable establishment should expect fair prices, and certainly should expect fair shipping.

Cheers  :D


Hmmm... that $35 shipping charge does look wrong. Maybe it's so high because of large insurance amount? I've checked the weight in our software and it's correct. Strange, something else I'll be looking into.

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:48 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Please note, this is the shady seller thread.  Aspiring artists need not fret.  :lol:


Heh, just goes to show you can proofread something a dozen times but still editors are necessary.  From the viewpoints expressed here, it seems T&T could use a few edits to their auctions as well.  T&T's automatic insurance calculator probably led to that high shipping charge.  On a $2,000 item most sellers will split the insurance cost with the buyer or cover it entirely as a thank you to the buyer for purchasing such a high-ticket item.


Last edited by Theleb on Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:26 pm 
 

I did a quick test on DHL site (not endorsing them in any way, but didn't have luck w/ FedEx site and didn't see quotes for anything over $500 for USPS).

size: 9x12x2
wt: 1 lb
zip: 10101 to 90210
personal packaging (not a DHL box I guess)
$4.82 ground
$18.82 with Shipment Value Protection for $2000

Cheers
8)

PS just read VermilionFire's post. I like the complementary insurance on an item like that.

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:42 pm 
 

brute wrote:I did a quick test on DHL site (not endorsing them in any way, but didn't have luck w/ FedEx site and didn't see quotes for anything over $500 for USPS).

size: 9x12x2
wt: 1 lb
zip: 10101 to 90210
personal packaging (not a DHL box I guess)
$4.82 ground
$18.82 with Shipment Value Protection for $2000

Cheers
8)

PS just read VermilionFire's post. I like the complementary insurance on an item like that.


Yeah, free insurance on that item sounds fine... I'm not sure that our software is set up to deviate from the listed postage types though. Hmmm, wonder why none of the other shipping services we use are listed in that auction. Might be one of the old style store items that has been relisting since before we modified our shipping services. That may be the reason for the high shipping charge.

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:07 pm 
 

brute wrote:zip: 10101 to 90210


Maybe the folks in Beverly Hills find a certain exclusivity in paying high shipping prices!
:wink:


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