Shady dealers of the past
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:01 pm 
 

chromaticknight wrote:I agree with BTB on this one:



But if you want to continue to drive away members new and old have at it.

Mike


Well, I guess we are going to have to agree to disgree here then, as I still say what Kynan did is shady as hell.  What TFM did is BULLSHIT period point blank.  You ask for a buy it now, great,  Someone bids before you can complete the deal, tough shit, you lose and you let the auction run to its completion, your loss.  I personally have done it on several occasions.  The fact that he pulled the rug out on 61 individual auctions that had multiple bidders on it makes it even far worse. If me posting about the shady workings of these "highly respected" members of this  community is bad, then maybe I should really rethink whether or not I want to be a meber of this community at all. I mean seriously, TFM is a LIAR, twice proven now and yet some how people still stand here and try and defend him. Once again, if he was such a great fellow and believed half of what the people who were here defending him believed, he'd be here himself saying it himself, rather than letting others say it for him. I'd say more, but I am really starting to get angry now, so I wont write anymore.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:18 pm 
 

bombadil wrote:After looking again at this, which is the ST1 that was pulled down because of questions of provenance and frankensteinization

Can anyone tell me whether the ST1 I bought from Paul's Jeff Perren benefit auction might be the same one?  Here's mine:

Any thoughts?

I don't think so.  It's interesting that many of the stress marks are in similar (though not similar enough to be the same copy) locations.  Any chance these were stored together for some length of time?

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:28 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:If me posting about the shady workings of these "highly respected" members of this  community is bad, then maybe I should really rethink whether or not I want to be a meber of this community at all.

I think this thread should be locked, and the key thrown away.  It is no longer living up to it's intended purpose.

"Shady Dealers" are subjective in most cases.  Most of us make up our own minds, so going into extensive detail as to why you feel someone is shady is completely pointless.  Better to simply list the individuals you've had trouble with, and let the pattern of evidence do the rest.  Let people learn who to believe the hard way, if they must.

Now behave back there, or I'll pull the car over.  :lol:

 YIM  

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:30 pm 
 

I agree with what you said, B, and I don't think anyone here would want to see you go. For the most part shady dealings is a moral call, though, and most people take up differing degrees of opinion on any given moral stance.

Holding an undisclosed eBay account and trying to pass of a copy of ST1 on the premis that you don't know much about the thing when you clearly do, I can see as being a viable business judgement. I can also understand why a person might make a descision to do that. But getting caught doing it is a whole different ball game. I believe TFM attempted to sell ST1 posing as an unconnected seller in order to field some of the questions that would be asked, and because there would be the possibility that bidding may be higher. The flaw comes with not admitting it and justifying his decision after he was caught.

As regards cancelling bids on items already bid upon, that again I see as being a moral judgement based on business ethics. It may be unethical to pull an auction in order to sell privately, but morally I would consider it if the money was high enough, and I would weigh the impact that would have on my reputation against the offered financial gain.

All that said, there is a difference between carrying out shady practice and getting caught. And there is a difference in a persons character between one who can step forward and say 'I made this judgement call because of this' and one who slopes off without offering a defence.

There is also a great need for you, B, on this board. You are one of the few moral compasses who keep the board's character in check. So don't stop what you're doing.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:36 pm 
 

One last thing that I wanted to add to this and then I am just going to leave it all alone unless someone directs something to em specifically.  The truth of the matter of this whole deal and despite how it may appear, I actually had no stake in those auctions what-so-ever.  Everything that I have said and done to this point about this has been because of the fact that it pissed me off that others lost out at an opportunity at those auctions and not me.  I sent my question to James Binks about the $3000 as an effort to stave off what I knew was happeneing at the time, because I knew that other people were getting screwed over, NOT me.

The fact is, I am about(and have been for a few months now since my unemployment in July) as strapped for cash as I have ever been in my entire life.  I had no real possibility of trying to win those auctions or buy any of that material in question.  If you look at what I have purchased on Ebay the last several months, not only has my buying gone down to an absolute minimum, almost everything that I bought has been with the intent of reselling to make some extra cash to support myself.  For those  who do decide to look I do have one item that may stick out, which would be an AIBO for $5,800, that was bought on behalf of someone else from this forum, so that isn't even my purchase either.    Ihave no other vested interest or stake in the disputed auctions other than being pissed at seeing everyone else get f***ed.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:45 pm 
 

I don't think this thread should be locked.

There is a need for open and candid discussion. Bclarke is not one for getting personal or offensive in his posts. He has always tried to be honest and objective. If the thread gets bogged down with personal sniping or offensive comment then lock it, but until then, let the discussion run it's course.

We don't lock down the 'Interesting items on eBay' thread when we talk about one particulary persons woody for three pages. Nor should we when we talk about one particular seller. We have seen similar discussions about Cougar, Tight Ass Games and Tonya's WOP Shop, and never considered locking this thread.

Leave this thread alone. Conversation will move along in due course.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:50 pm 
 

Howdy Stephen,


bombadil wrote:Can anyone tell me whether the ST1 I bought from Paul's Jeff Perren benefit auction might be the same one?


Paul can:

It is not the same one.


Futures Bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:53 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:I think this thread should be locked, and the key thrown away.  It is no longer living up to it's intended purpose.


I agree that the thread has moved off course.  I don't want to see anyone leave the forum over a disagreement such as this.  What happened with TFM was unfortunate.  The decision to pull the auctions wasn't the smartest thing to do in my opinion but it was done.  TFM left the forum for his own reasons and I wont attempt to speculate but it created a rift that I assumed was closed.

There are more constructive things to talk about anyway...like how cougarrinard sucks the big one.  :wink:

  


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:03 pm 
 

The Collector's Trove wrote:It is not the same one.


Thanks for the confirmation, Paul.  I appreciate it.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:10 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
You ask for a buy it now, great,  Someone bids before you can complete the deal, tough shit, you lose and you let the auction run to its completion, your loss.  I personally have done it on several occasions.  The fact that he pulled the rug out on 61 individual auctions that had multiple bidders on it makes it even far worse.


Brian, at the risk of sounding like I'm trying to put a bug up your ass - which, believe me, I'm not - this is very similar to my own reasoning and for being so upset about the purportedly shilled Chainmail auction being brought down by you.  There were several bids on it (and I was on top) when it was pulled.  You  may have been right about the shilling, but like I said before, such a situation should be handled, in my opinion, by stating your suspicions and evidence here and letting the auction run its course with everyone being informed.

Now, like I said, I'm not trying to piss you off or anything, just trying to illustrate my point.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:34 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
I agree that the thread has moved off course.  I don't want to see anyone leave the forum over a disagreement such as this.  What happened with TFM was unfortunate.  The decision to pull the auctions wasn't the smartest thing to do in my opinion but it was done.  TFM left the forum for his own reasons and I wont attempt to speculate but it created a rift that I assumed was closed.

There are more constructive things to talk about anyway...like how cougarrinard sucks the big one.  :wink:

I think this is exactly WHY this thread is here. It shouldn't be locked just because one topic happens to be being discussed more prevelantly than an other. Nothing objectionable is being said.

This is meant to be an open forum in which D&D related topics are discussed. We are all collectors and dealing on eBay is the primary means by which most of us earn our livings or amass our collections. You cannot sensor a discussion about any single dealer in a 'shady seller' section solely because he is a big player in the community. Titan Games and Cougar are both 'big players' and their trading practices are often the subject of major debate.

If this topic should be locked, do you propose we ban all discussion about eBay on the forum? Or just discussion about dodgy practaces on eBay?


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:09 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:If this topic should be locked, do you propose we ban all discussion about eBay on the forum? Or just discussion about dodgy practaces on eBay?

I proposed we lock the thread in an attempt to reasonably and amicably prevent needless bickering.  Calling that censorship is laying it on a little thick, don't ya think? ;)

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:45 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I don't think this thread should be locked.


Me neither. Or if it is, a new one should be started.

I almost bought something from Dayecon a few months ago, now I'm glad I didn't it, and I won't make that mistake in the future.

I don't have much to say on the tfm/grett conroy/james sinks mess, but I support bclarkie's efforts/posts.

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:53 pm 
 

What surprises me is the discovery that this is a 1st edition collectors' forum.

I didn't know.  8O

Nothing that the Captain said struck me as particularly trollish.  He said some things that he probably would not have said had he realized that the authors of some publications are members here.  As far as I could tell, he was just having some fun spouting off.

It would have been cool if Dayecon, or whatever his name is, had come on the Acaeum as himself and said, "Hey, yeah, I screwed up some orders. I'll try to do better."  Probably never happen, but it would be cool.

I think some people become shady sellers not by design but because they underestimated the trouble and expense involved in getting things shipped properly...and then cannot admit weakness.

Mark


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:11 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I think this is exactly WHY this thread is here. It shouldn't be locked just because one topic happens to be being discussed more prevelantly than an other. Nothing objectionable is being said.

This is meant to be an open forum in which D&D related topics are discussed. We are all collectors and dealing on eBay is the primary means by which most of us earn our livings or amass our collections. You cannot sensor a discussion about any single dealer in a 'shady seller' section solely because he is a big player in the community. Titan Games and Cougar are both 'big players' and their trading practices are often the subject of major debate.

If this topic should be locked, do you propose we ban all discussion about eBay on the forum? Or just discussion about dodgy practaces on eBay?


Where exactly did I say the thread should be locked?  I stated that the thread had moved "off course".  :?

  

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:36 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:I think this thread should be locked, and the key thrown away.  It is no longer living up to it's intended purpose.

"Shady Dealers" are subjective in most cases.  Most of us make up our own minds, so going into extensive detail as to why you feel someone is shady is completely pointless.  Better to simply list the individuals you've had trouble with, and let the pattern of evidence do the rest.  Let people learn who to believe the hard way, if they must.

Now behave back there, or I'll pull the car over.  :lol:


Not you, King, Deimos said it, in a noble Kissinger-like peacekeeping move.  I for one appreciate the info about questionable practices, and am quietly amazed at bclarkie's CSI-The Acaeum starring role.  How the heck does he remember and put together all the clues?  Please don't go anywhere!


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:55 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:There are more constructive things to talk about anyway...like how cougarrinard sucks the big one.  :wink:

Seriously, we haven't ripped on Cougie since page 79! 8O C'mon, guys, we need to focus here! :)

Oh, BTW, Cougie: you suck.

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:07 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Seriously, we haven't ripped on Cougie since page 79! 8O C'mon, guys, we need to focus here! :)

Oh, BTW, Cougie: you suck.


Yeh man! Don't ever lose sight of this!!!! Cougie you do suck you know!!!!

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:11 am 
 

Got to love this in dayecon's recent lot:

"Due to recent complications with foreign shipments I am now requiring all Foreign packages to be shipped with Return Receipt or Tracking depending on which service you choose. If both Return Receipt or Tracking are not available for your area I am sorry, but I cannot ship to you."


Yeah, you know that wily Canada Post "loses" packages because they are like 50 years behind USPS  (that would be me whose package was "lost" going to Canada). And suffice it to say two of the buyers whose packages were "lost" were US based.


He also is not offering insurance on his latest lot, already above 100 USD. So what is the Acaeum policy on contacting would-be victims?

  

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:32 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Seriously, we haven't ripped on Cougie since page 79! 8O  


OK I'll oblige....latest round of bad press for the coug....

Negative/Neutral Feedback received by cougarrinard


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