Shady dealers of the past
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:03 am 
 

Well, something else to consider is the items that cantankerous2u bid on are only from crankyeeyore. Also, look at what he bid on:

cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidI ... amp;sort=3

Out of the blue he wanted a bunch of D&D items, a nintendo and a payton manning rookie card....i dont know, kind of a weird shopping list if you think about it.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:07 am 
 

yesterday i found this auction by trollandtoadstore:

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0007447305

i wrote them asking why the object in the picture is not the one described in the auction... furthemore i asked for shipping fees to italy...

this morning i recieved their reply:

"Shipping to Italy would be about 25.00. The picture is a stock picture, so it isn't the exact copy you will recieve, but it is the exact item."

after the 5 seconds moment of delusion, i realized that they use the highest rates i've ever seen and they aren't correct at all in showing a 1st/2nd print picture instead of what is effectively in sale (a mere 4th/9th print)!


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:13 am 
 

Kosh Vorlontay wrote:There is something silly (or is it shilly) here:


Looks like shilling to me...Have you tried contacting the buyers or reporting it to Ebay? Where's bclarkie? He'd get to the bottom of this in about 5 min.

Does anyone know if cantankerous2u is from VA too?


Just says..."United States". Presumably to cover their tracks.  :roll:

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the "husband" that seller referred to...he probably didn't want his stuff to go for too low.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:22 am 
 

aia wrote: after the 5 seconds moment of delusion, i realized that they use the highest rates i've ever seen and they aren't correct at all in showing a 1st/2nd print picture instead of what is effectively in sale (a mere 4th/9th print)!


Aia, that auction is terrible. Very misleading. We've been discussing this problem with Troll&Toad over here:
Old Candidates: Silliest Auction Prices of the Year • Page 20 • Collecting General •  The Acaeum

The owner actually posted in that thread and said to contact him at [email protected] to report any problems.

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:06 pm 
 

Kosh Vorlontay wrote:Well, something else to consider is the items that cantankerous2u bid on are only from crankyeeyore. Also, look at what he bid on:

cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidI ... amp;sort=3

Out of the blue he wanted a bunch of D&D items, a nintendo and a payton manning rookie card....i dont know, kind of a weird shopping list if you think about it.


If you look at eeyoe's feedback, apparently the bidder bought some plates from him/her in the past as well.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:29 pm 
 

aia wrote:yesterday i found this auction by trollandtoadstore:

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0007447305

i wrote them asking why the object in the picture is not the one described in the auction... furthemore i asked for shipping fees to italy...

this morning i recieved their reply:

after the 5 seconds moment of delusion, i realized that they use the highest rates i've ever seen and they aren't correct at all in showing a 1st/2nd print picture instead of what is effectively in sale (a mere 4th/9th print)!



Stealing someone else's picture for your own auction is unethical.

Deliberately posting a picture of [i]the wrong item
, especially and particularly the wrong edition is a frackin' FOUL!

This seller's careful mentionof the print run in the auction text seems to me to show that he knows what he's doing and is being deliberately deceptive.

Protestations of innocence or ignorance from this seller are starting to sound hollow.

Mark   8) [/i]


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:44 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Protestations of innocence or ignorance from this seller are starting to sound hollow.

Agreed.  If you can state that this is a 4th-6th printing, you've obtained that information here.  By posting a 1st printing picture, you're knowingly committing fraud, in my opinion.  If you're going to steal an Acaeum photo, steal this one  :roll: :

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:53 pm 
 

This is the text of the email I just sent to this seller:



** expired eBay auction **


    Your attention is directed to the above auction post.

    The decision to use a false picture...and your auction text seems to me to indicate that the writer knows the picture is of an earlier edition...strikes me as unethical.


    Whatever the problem in your business may be, you need to fix it ASAP. You are hemorraging credibility and you are quickly building a negative reputation that will be hard to erase.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:05 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Protestations of innocence or ignorance from this seller are starting to sound hollow.


Mr. Shipley:

On these boards I have previously stated my personal support for Jon, the owner of Troll & Toad. The use of Acaeum and other photos was not his decision or order. I am not at liberty to divulge further details of the internal problem there.

It's a mess. It will harm his business. The responsibility certainly rests with the owner. He agrees completely with those three statements. And I know he's doing all he can to track down and replace all the invalid photography. It would expedite the corrections if you would point out the problems. While it may make you feel better to relay that information with plenty of rancor attached, that does not help.

And if you wish to keep knocking him despite all this, fine. I'll read that as a vote of No Confidence in me (and my vouching for him) as well.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:18 pm 
 

I don't think I have displayed any rancor, Frank.

Maybe it seems that way because it is piling on to what others have said.  I guess I need to give him more time to fix things before I pile on again.  :?  

I figured that the problem was fixed after he came here and posted his concern. Since I am not a seller, I guess I don't know how long it takes to repair incorrect listings.  I haven't checked this seller's "items for sale."  Maybe he has a lot of these to correct...?  

You must have great confidence in him to vouch for him so strongly, so I will accept your word on it.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 pm 
 

I think one of the biggest problems is that the Troll and Toad have that statement about their owning the pictures etc.  It might be best if they got rid of that statement until they could fix up their stock photos so that they are not just stolen pictures.

The other problem is that they were first alerted to this problem with the Hydell auction so they cancelled the first auction, then a couple of days later relisted it with the same stolen picture.  I see that it has been cancelled again and not relisted yet.  But it would be nice to see some evidence that the seller is actually making progress in fixing their problems.

They aren't exactly winning any friends with a lot of the prices they have either (but business isn't about making friends).

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:31 pm 
 

Frank,
I have confidence in your judgment, but I've had 2 bad interactions with T&T.  Both of them related to misrepresentation of the items, including inaccurate descriptions over the phone.  They did, however, refund my money.  No big deal, but it was disappointing and inconvenient.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:58 pm 
 

Mars wrote:They aren't exactly winning any friends with a lot of the prices they have either (but business isn't about making friends).


Hmmm, just wandered over for a look see.  Their Call of Cthulhu prices are similar (and on some cases more expensive!) than buying direct from Chaosium.  Still, presumably they get enough people buying to make it worthwhile - their margins must be good.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:24 pm 
 

I have bought from them before and got a good deal I thought on the items I picked up (course there was no issue of other printings.)
It seems that the major WebStores seem to use stock photos for any printing (I know NobleKnight does this also and Dragontrove as well) so its always best to ask (heck even a cover doesn't always tell you what printing it is).

ShaneG.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:32 pm 
 

bombadil wrote:it was disappointing and inconvenient.


Argh. Sounds like the guy that's, um... no longer there.

btw, I agree that T&T is expensive. So's Egor, and he's a much closer personal friend than Jon. But both of them are honest... and sometimes pay the price when their employees are less so.

Hell, I have 20 employees myself. Maybe that's why I sympathize a bit more than some. :/

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:38 pm 
 

Hi All:
 Jon from Troll & Toad here.  To respond to some concerns raised here

I took down some auctions, but due to the way our software posting works, that got put back up by the computer (who was "fixing" what it saw was an unexpected auction down. NONE of our auctions are put up by human beings, it's all software run).  I went ahead and "turn off" entirely our D&D section, it was the only way to temporarily fix this.  I won't be turning our D&D back on on eBay until the pictures are replaced.

We did have a wrong picture up for a certain version of the monster manual.  It's getting fixed.  C'mon guys, it will be really easy for someone  (my picture employee who knows nothing about D&D) to put up the wrong picture for the 4th - 6th version or whatever of a Manual.  I'm certain there is probably another half dozen or so errors in our future D&D listings where similar mistakes will be made.  But as long as you are kind enough to message me when you see one, they will get fixed.  If someone gets an item that was due to our error, we refund and pay shipping both ways, it's our company's standard policy.

It's going to take 2 employees 1-2 days to go through all 1200+ items we have in our database (for D&D) and fix the pictures.  I'm getting major resistance on getting the job done (from my employees), since that means they have to interrupt their regular work to do this.  I've warned them we can't sell any D&D stuff on eBay until it's all fixed. No sales - so I expect it'll get done early part of next week.

- thx, Jon

p.s. Oh, I forgot.  As promised, I redesigned the legal language, so we're still covered but it sounds much better than before.  You can take a look here at this RPG we just posted recently:


** expired eBay auction **


p.s.s. Our pricing is the "first" time pricing, i.e. we have never gone back over and done a revision.  With all this other stuff to fix, I'd rather get the pictures / descriptions issues taken care of before looking at the pricing.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:10 pm 
 

Since Frank brought up Egor, I've got a story about a former "underperforming" employee, troll as Egor calls them, there.  It was about 9 years ago I ordered Space Gamer 1-13 for about $170 and specifically told the employee taking the order on the phone to ship to my new address, not my old address on file in the Egor database.  He said sure, no problem...  
A month went by and no Space Gamers.  I called and e-mailed to find out that the employee (who had left Egor's in the intervening time period) shipped to my old address at a Manhattan apartment building... which meant the package probably sat on the furnace next to the mailboxes for a few days until the superintendant noticed it was for a former tenant who hadn't live there for a couple years and threw it into recycling.   8O
Egor of course refunded me the entire payment... but that former employee was responsible for a lot of Space Gamers (including an issue #1 which I'm still searching for) being pulped.   :(
Unfortunately business proprietors cannot clone themselves yet to get the job done right in every case.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:50 pm 
 

It's hard to find good trolls nowadays.
You should never grow beyond the point where you have to hire chum for employees. And, I imagine, the trolls probably make less than a one-armed street mime, so I'm sure their motivation level is lower than Maxwell's IQ.
The most successful businessman I've ever known once told me "When you take an employee's money worries away, he will not only perform his best, he'll also be entirely loyal". He had a habit of paying his 18 year old warehouse guys $11 an hour (15 years ago), and you know, he NEVER had any shipping or receiving issues. Ever.


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