Shady dealers of the past
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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:42 am 
 

MShipley88 wrote:This seller is probably an OK guy.

   I call the type of person who wants to "beat" Ebay a "genius."

   A "genius" (with sarcasm) is a guy who thinks the rest of us are abominably stupid for following the rules...so he feels OK with breaking them.  He thinks the rest of us are suckers and he is soooo clever.



Interestingly, Mark, your word "genius" has the samedefinition as my word "Fuckhead".  Reminds of of all the D&D rules lawyers I have run into during the years who think when they exploit a certain loophole it's "brilliant", but when you turn the rule back on them, it's "cheating". Like the dude I DM'ed once who thought carrying a dozen "molotov cocktails" of oil was "genius" because of all the damage they did (2-12 pts, then 1-6 next round, then 1-3 last round) and you didn't even have to be proficient!  And he was racking up the experience points also...until that mage with the Burning hands spell through it at his character...and his flasks started failing saves..
WHOOOOMPH!
Nothing funnier than a guy's character getting something like 50 pts of fire damage when he's low level and his character is so crispy fried that raising him is impossible.  Come to think of it, THAT guy stormed out of the game also saying I "cheated" since the mage "picked on his character instead of the others"...maybe it was the SAME guy you were gaming with Mark....

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:53 am 
 

I think one of the best rules I have read in an RPG was in the 1st edition Shadowrun book (and possibly the other editions since).

Basically, it said that magic requires specific conditions to be met....and it's got to be straightforward and unvarnished.  Therefore, any tricky or questionable way of casting or using a spell will not work.  Or, another way of saying it...any interpretation of a spell that requires shades of meaning in the rules will not work.  If there is any question, the spell does not go off.

Beautiful.

Of course, my other favorite rule in an RPG rulebook is in the 3.5 Monster Manual.   Rough quote:  "The statistics given here are for the weakest or most common version of the various monsters described."

   In other words..."There are rules for increasing the power or tweaking the abilities of any monster....and that's gonna suck for the PC's.  They'll literally never know what to expect."   :twisted:

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:19 am 
 

And....

    I also had an oil tanker character in one of my games who failed his saving throw versus fireball and went up like...well...an oil tanker.  I think he had something like 16 flasks of oil on him.

    I let his character be raised from the dead...but the guy had to wear a mask from then on to conceal his horribly burned visage....which could not be regenerated into its original form.  The player accepted his fatal choice and built the masked character into a good storyline.   :P

    I have always made a point to warn players about the dangers of the choice to carry lots of oil.

    The thing about a "genius" is that he generally assumes that no one else could ever have thought of whatever plan he wishes to try.  Therefore, when his plan fails to work...or backfires on him because of the fatal flaws clearly visible to others...he tends to blame either fate or the game master.  It's never his fault.   8O

   That is the kind of mindset that creates a shady dealer.  Most of them figure they know an edge that will beat everyone else.  It is the menal state, for instance, that allows them to convince themselves that selling pdf's of copyrighted material is OK...because who really remembers who owns this stuff, right?   :roll:

    Like the "genius," the shady dealer is also highly selective about which rules he wants to remember.  He knows all about your obligation to pay and remembers very little about the laws and rules applicable to him.

    Another irony of the "genius" is that he considers others to be rules lawyers.  His interpretation of the rules is always both incredibly clever and completely accurate.  When other people point out that he is cheating...or has a very selective memory...he claims they are violating "the spirit of the game."  Since he cannot be wrong, that is the only possible explanation.

   This was exactly the attitude of that guy who recently wanted Deadlord to pay for something like $10,000 worth of his illegal pdf files.  He insisted that Frank's bogus Ebay persona had to pay for the auctions...while also insisting that Frank was a rules lawyer for pointing out that he was in violation of federal law...big violation.

   In recent years, I have given up arguing about the rules.  (And, to be sure, 3.5 has few rules arguments.)  Instead, I generally let the player have it his way unless the other players are willing to argue for my point of view.  Later, when the heat of the moment is gone, I go back and clarify the rule for future reference.

My own biggest rules lawyer moment:    A year ago I got so disgusted with the whining that I actually wrote up a contract about the interpretation of the charm person spell...wrote it right on the flyleaf of a rule book.  I forced my players to acknowledge that this was their interpretation of the rules...and then sign and date the contract.

The player-character interpretation of how the spell should affect them is now the standard also applied to NPC's and monsters.:lol:

No one even bothers to cast the spell anymore.   :wink:

Yes, I know I'm off topic.

I bought a couple things from Tonya recently.  They were both very nice and the price was right.   :)

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:38 am 
 

gotta say i have never really had so many problems like that with players before.

i just like to let the game roam as rule-free as i can, cos i like the role-play of a game more. far more fun.

only time it ever became a problem, was when a player joined the group and had a magical shield that i was unfamiliar with and couldnt find any reference to. not only that, i wasnt that bothered, but i felt it unbalanced the combats and the other characters playing, so i just arranged for it to be umm sorted :)

courtesy of a lovely lil rust monster that came along while they were sleeping, i rolled for a save and oh sorry did it fail? when he woke up, he had the buckle and a pile of useless metal left. was he pissed? oh you betcha.

but just to show that i am not a mean-ass like that, i did arrange for him to somehow be given a new shield as a gift for doing a solo-task which fit more into the game and i was far more happy with. he turned out to be quite happy with it to as i tweaked it slightly to be something other than the norm.

bout the way the game should be played imo.

kinda goes the same for buying/selling on ebay really. bit o compromise goes a long way and normally gets things sorted.

Al


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:34 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:
   That is the kind of mindset that creates a shady dealer.  Most of them figure they know an edge that will beat everyone else.  It is the menal state, for instance, that allows them to convince themselves that selling pdf's of copyrighted material is OK...because who really remembers who owns this stuff, right?   :roll:

    Like the "genius," the shady dealer is also highly selective about which rules he wants to remember.  He knows all about your obligation to pay and remembers very little about the laws and rules applicable to him.


Yeh, this fits the guys that charge BIN's for $1 on stuff with $10 shipping fees: "Whoa, if I load all the money to SHIPPING I won't be charged for it by Ebay, AND the buyers won't notice the charge until they buy the item!!!! Genius!!!!"  Like they are the first moron to find that "flaw" in the system.  They don't seem to factor in that sellers that do that are generally not very successful.....


My own biggest rules lawyer moment:    A year ago I got so disgusted with the whining that I actually wrote up a contract about the interpretation of the charm person spell...wrote it right on the flyleaf of a rule book.  I forced my players to acknowledge that this was their interpretation of the rules...and then sign and date the contract.

The player-character interpretation of how the spell should affect them is now the standard also applied to NPC's and monsters.:lol:

No one even bothers to cast the spell anymore.   :wink:


Funny.  I think I'll bring back the Rules Lawyering thread...I just thought of 2-3 pretty funny examples of same.  Nothing better than hammering players with their own rules interpretations!

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:40 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:gotta say i have never really had so many problems like that with players before.

i just like to let the game roam as rule-free as i can, cos i like the role-play of a game more. far more fun.

only time it ever became a problem, was when a player joined the group and had a magical shield that i was unfamiliar with and couldnt find any reference to. not only that, i wasnt that bothered, but i felt it unbalanced the combats and the other characters playing, so i just arranged for it to be umm sorted :)

courtesy of a lovely lil rust monster that came along while they were sleeping, i rolled for a save and oh sorry did it fail? when he woke up, he had the buckle and a pile of useless metal left. was he pissed? oh you betcha.


Al


Ahh, the Rust Monster, along with the Grey Ooze, Deadly Puddings, and Green Slime, as the DM's best friend at destroying unwanted metal products adorning characters.....!

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:29 pm 
 

ah but in fairness, i DID compensate him with something that did fit into the game, so the party was more balanced to the way i wanted to do things.

but yeah stick some rules in - would be very interested in other peoples interpretations...

Al


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:57 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:

Yeh, this fits the guys that charge BIN's for $1 on stuff with $10 shipping fees: "Whoa, if I load all the money to SHIPPING I won't be charged for it by Ebay, AND the buyers won't notice the charge until they buy the item!!!! Genius!!!!"  Like they are the first moron to find that "flaw" in the system.  They don't seem to factor in that sellers that do that are generally not very successful.....




Funny.  I think I'll bring back the Rules Lawyering thread...I just thought of 2-3 pretty funny examples of same.  Nothing better than hammering players with their own rules interpretations!

Mike B.


  If you wanna hear player characters cry in 3.5, then have them encounter a group of rogues (thieves) of close to their level.

  Have the rogues tumble about using sneak attack and such.  Listen to the howls.

Mark


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:56 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:ah but in fairness, i DID compensate him with something that did fit into the game, so the party was more balanced to the way i wanted to do things.

but yeah stick some rules in - would be very interested in other peoples interpretations...

Al


I like my magic items to be special in some way either appearance, they glow in certain conditions they have interesting minor powers that are useful or practical etc.

When I've had players who "roll-play" rather than roleplay I like to give them items that function better when they roleplay. Alot of powergamers are quite forceful and vocal players in my experience and giving them weapons and items that function better under certain conditions that encourage good roleplaying habits also help drive the plot. By all means give the guy +3 sword at level 2 but make him work for it! It's easy enough to give an additional +2 to attacks to the player next to him for attacking from behind for example. Eventually even the most stupid powergamer will realise you don't need to own the best weapon in the party and that if you manage things correctly, he or she will come to realise the most effective members of the party aren't the ones in the best gear they merely use what they have more effectively.

  


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:55 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Yeh, this fits the guys that charge BIN's for $1 on stuff with $10 shipping fees: "Whoa, if I load all the money to SHIPPING I won't be charged for it by Ebay, AND the buyers won't notice the charge until they buy the item!!!! Genius!!!!"  Like they are the first moron to find that "flaw" in the system.  They don't seem to factor in that sellers that do that are generally not very successful.....

Not only unsuccessful, but in violation of eBay's policy.  (I'm sure most of you know this already, but just in case someone who doesn't is listening...)  Quite simply, if someone tries to hose you on shipping/handling, don't pay!  If the seller refuses to budge, file a complaint with eBay and they'll handle it.

eBay wrote:A shipping and handling fee can cover the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item.
...
Users may not post listings with low prices but unreasonably high shipping or handling costs. This practise is considered an unacceptable way of circumventing eBay's fees. To report a listing that circumvents eBay fees through unreasonably high shipping or handling costs, contact us with the item number.

Whether the bidder "notices" before or after the auction is finished is irrelevant, this isn't a bear trap, it's an auction.   :roll:

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:10 pm 
 

Will Ebay actually do anything?  Won't you just end up losing the item you wanted and getting a negative feedback?


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Post Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 4:40 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:VERY BIG BUYER BEWARE

eBay listings

The guy from Ypsilanti Michigan who stole a bunch of people's money (including Marlith's) back around November is back up in operation again. I would strongly suggest avoiding this seller like the plague. This guy seems to be the newest albiet different version of jonb. This one just happens to reside in Michigan and not Virgina and could care less about auction descrition.


As predicted, this seller has already flamed out. :roll:

eBay Feedback Profile for 7045carln


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Post Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:31 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
bclarkie wrote:VERY BIG BUYER BEWARE

eBay listings

The guy from Ypsilanti Michigan who stole a bunch of people's money (including Marlith's) back around November is back up in operation again. I would strongly suggest avoiding this seller like the plague. This guy seems to be the newest albiet different version of jonb. This one just happens to reside in Michigan and not Virgina and could care less about auction descrition.


As predicted, this seller has already flamed out. :roll:

eBay Feedback Profile for 7045carln


I appreciated you pointing that out to me earlier but I was not going to waste any more time over the $25 I lost. That was only the second time that had ever happened in all my dealings on eBay. It has since happened again with this. So do you know did someone at least get the Immortlas set in the SW. I know eBay never got me my money back and this latest one is not going to end favorably either.


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Post Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:46 pm 
 

I purchased some lots from these ebay sellers who boast lots of feedback and a huge retail store who buy other peoples collections, items were missing from my shipment. Sent email concerning missing items, no response. After reading auction page carefully, they state: Items listed, packaged and shipped from all diferent people. Apparently it takes 3 different employees to conduct one transaction. Silly. I know with big distributors this may be a nescesity and they may not have time to respond to every individual mistake but hey  I expect more accuracy and attention to detail from a big ebay distributor, maybe I shouldnt, which from now on those with fancy webpages or thousands of transactions Im going to completely skip on bidding on thier auctions from now on. Very dissapointed. Anyone else feel the same way about bidding and buying from big time sellers versus small time collectors?

  


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Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 12:01 am 
 

RedBeard wrote:Items listed, packaged and shipped from all diferent people. Apparently it takes 3 different employees to conduct one transaction.

A shot in the dark: Titan Games or Tonya's Rot Grub Shop, right? :)

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Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:59 am 
 

I have bought several things from Tonya recently.  No complaints at all...in fact, I am happy with my purchases.  Good communication.  Very reliable.

The worst complaints about Tonya and Titan seem to come from people who did not take care in reading the shipping terms, or who do a poor job of communicating about their concerns.  

There is no point in buying multiple items at the same time from these two sellers because there is virtually no break on shipping costs.  There are other sellers, even members here, who charge more.

I don't know why I have appointed myself their unofficial defender...possibly because Tonya is a girl... :? ...but nothing about them strikes me as "shady."

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:30 am 
 

MShipley88 wrote:I have bought several things from Tonya recently.  No complaints at all...in fact, I am happy with my purchases.  Good communication.  Very reliable.


Mark, its fantastic that you had a good experience.  I didn't and will not purchase from Tonya again.  

Do I believe she is shady?  No.  
Do I believe she is accurate in describing products?  No.
Do I beleive she has good communication skills? No.
Do I believe she overcharges for shipping? Yes.
Do I believe there are better sellers on this forum who I would rather purchase from? Yes

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Post Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:10 am 
 

There's nothing wrong with Titan, it just hurts a bit when they shove that shipping snake up your can.


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