Shady dealers of the past
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Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 5:58 pm 
 

This seller is probably an OK guy.

   I call the type of person who wants to "beat" Ebay a "genius."

   A "genius" (with sarcasm) is a guy who thinks the rest of us are abominably stupid for following the rules...so he feels OK with breaking them.  He thinks the rest of us are suckers and he is soooo clever.

   There was a "genius" guy who I met at our local game store, playing the game, Necromunda (underhive gang skirmish rules for Warhammer 40,000).

   This guy was classic "genius."  For instance, in Necromunda, literal line of sight (from the miniature's head) is part of the rules.  This guy did not glue-on the arms to his plastic miniatures so that he could move the arms straight up...out of sight...until his turn.

   Another time, he brought a "gang" of adeptus arbites police officers, in armor and with special stats, to the weekend battles.  He insisted that because White Dwarf had published rules for this squad, it was a legal "gang."  (Starting points for a gang was 1000...a squad of adeptus arbites would have cost about 1600 points.)

  The problem for him was, like any other "genius," was that he was more concerned with beating the rules...and seeming smart...than actually being smart.  My legal gangs routinely massacred his cheater-monkey crap.  Not even close...not even particularly challenging.

   I introduced his armored troopers to the concept of shotguns and "knock-back" and the inadvisablity of standing in the open on high catwalks.   :twisted:

  He accused me of cheating every time.  I would then show him the rulebook and the legal rules he had not bothered to master.  He considered it unfair that someone would not be stunned by his "genius."  He finally stormed out one Saturday night (after another massacre) and never returned to the Necromunda tournaments.

   The last time I heard of him, one of my buddies had met him in a Magic: The Gathering tournament at the WOTC world headquarters, in Seattle's U-District.  And, yes, this "genius" had a genius plan for beating that game as well.  He stormed out of the tournament when my friend beat him handily......claiming that my friend was violating "the spirit of the rules."

   My guess is that roughly 10% of the people on Ebay would qualify for the title of "genius."  It is my hunch that these people account for as much as 90% of the negative experiences to be had there.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:25 pm 
 

I prefer the phrase 'dick head' to discribe these people. I can see that your word is more tactful.


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Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:51 pm 
 

I like Al's term: Muppet :)

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Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:30 pm 
 

I came across "jacktard" somewhere and now I can't stop using it. What a word ... :)

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Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:45 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:I like Al's term: Muppet :)

ShaneG.


well yes indeed - muppet says it so well :)

imbecile and ingrate are two others i like :)

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Post Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:54 pm 
 

I've used dumbass all my life, but it's fallen out of favor ever since That 70's Show stole it from me. Dumbasses.


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Post Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:01 am 
 

Image

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Post Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:26 am 
 

Didn't a famous captain also use the phrase: "Well double-dumbass on you!)  :lol:

  

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:42 am 
 

MShipley88 wrote:This seller is probably an OK guy.

   I call the type of person who wants to "beat" Ebay a "genius."

   A "genius" (with sarcasm) is a guy who thinks the rest of us are abominably stupid for following the rules...so he feels OK with breaking them.  He thinks the rest of us are suckers and he is soooo clever.



Interestingly, Mark, your word "genius" has the samedefinition as my word "Fuckhead".  Reminds of of all the D&D rules lawyers I have run into during the years who think when they exploit a certain loophole it's "brilliant", but when you turn the rule back on them, it's "cheating". Like the dude I DM'ed once who thought carrying a dozen "molotov cocktails" of oil was "genius" because of all the damage they did (2-12 pts, then 1-6 next round, then 1-3 last round) and you didn't even have to be proficient!  And he was racking up the experience points also...until that mage with the Burning hands spell through it at his character...and his flasks started failing saves..
WHOOOOMPH!
Nothing funnier than a guy's character getting something like 50 pts of fire damage when he's low level and his character is so crispy fried that raising him is impossible.  Come to think of it, THAT guy stormed out of the game also saying I "cheated" since the mage "picked on his character instead of the others"...maybe it was the SAME guy you were gaming with Mark....

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:53 am 
 

I think one of the best rules I have read in an RPG was in the 1st edition Shadowrun book (and possibly the other editions since).

Basically, it said that magic requires specific conditions to be met....and it's got to be straightforward and unvarnished.  Therefore, any tricky or questionable way of casting or using a spell will not work.  Or, another way of saying it...any interpretation of a spell that requires shades of meaning in the rules will not work.  If there is any question, the spell does not go off.

Beautiful.

Of course, my other favorite rule in an RPG rulebook is in the 3.5 Monster Manual.   Rough quote:  "The statistics given here are for the weakest or most common version of the various monsters described."

   In other words..."There are rules for increasing the power or tweaking the abilities of any monster....and that's gonna suck for the PC's.  They'll literally never know what to expect."   :twisted:

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:19 am 
 

And....

    I also had an oil tanker character in one of my games who failed his saving throw versus fireball and went up like...well...an oil tanker.  I think he had something like 16 flasks of oil on him.

    I let his character be raised from the dead...but the guy had to wear a mask from then on to conceal his horribly burned visage....which could not be regenerated into its original form.  The player accepted his fatal choice and built the masked character into a good storyline.   :P

    I have always made a point to warn players about the dangers of the choice to carry lots of oil.

    The thing about a "genius" is that he generally assumes that no one else could ever have thought of whatever plan he wishes to try.  Therefore, when his plan fails to work...or backfires on him because of the fatal flaws clearly visible to others...he tends to blame either fate or the game master.  It's never his fault.   8O

   That is the kind of mindset that creates a shady dealer.  Most of them figure they know an edge that will beat everyone else.  It is the menal state, for instance, that allows them to convince themselves that selling pdf's of copyrighted material is OK...because who really remembers who owns this stuff, right?   :roll:

    Like the "genius," the shady dealer is also highly selective about which rules he wants to remember.  He knows all about your obligation to pay and remembers very little about the laws and rules applicable to him.

    Another irony of the "genius" is that he considers others to be rules lawyers.  His interpretation of the rules is always both incredibly clever and completely accurate.  When other people point out that he is cheating...or has a very selective memory...he claims they are violating "the spirit of the game."  Since he cannot be wrong, that is the only possible explanation.

   This was exactly the attitude of that guy who recently wanted Deadlord to pay for something like $10,000 worth of his illegal pdf files.  He insisted that Frank's bogus Ebay persona had to pay for the auctions...while also insisting that Frank was a rules lawyer for pointing out that he was in violation of federal law...big violation.

   In recent years, I have given up arguing about the rules.  (And, to be sure, 3.5 has few rules arguments.)  Instead, I generally let the player have it his way unless the other players are willing to argue for my point of view.  Later, when the heat of the moment is gone, I go back and clarify the rule for future reference.

My own biggest rules lawyer moment:    A year ago I got so disgusted with the whining that I actually wrote up a contract about the interpretation of the charm person spell...wrote it right on the flyleaf of a rule book.  I forced my players to acknowledge that this was their interpretation of the rules...and then sign and date the contract.

The player-character interpretation of how the spell should affect them is now the standard also applied to NPC's and monsters.:lol:

No one even bothers to cast the spell anymore.   :wink:

Yes, I know I'm off topic.

I bought a couple things from Tonya recently.  They were both very nice and the price was right.   :)

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:38 am 
 

gotta say i have never really had so many problems like that with players before.

i just like to let the game roam as rule-free as i can, cos i like the role-play of a game more. far more fun.

only time it ever became a problem, was when a player joined the group and had a magical shield that i was unfamiliar with and couldnt find any reference to. not only that, i wasnt that bothered, but i felt it unbalanced the combats and the other characters playing, so i just arranged for it to be umm sorted :)

courtesy of a lovely lil rust monster that came along while they were sleeping, i rolled for a save and oh sorry did it fail? when he woke up, he had the buckle and a pile of useless metal left. was he pissed? oh you betcha.

but just to show that i am not a mean-ass like that, i did arrange for him to somehow be given a new shield as a gift for doing a solo-task which fit more into the game and i was far more happy with. he turned out to be quite happy with it to as i tweaked it slightly to be something other than the norm.

bout the way the game should be played imo.

kinda goes the same for buying/selling on ebay really. bit o compromise goes a long way and normally gets things sorted.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:34 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:
   That is the kind of mindset that creates a shady dealer.  Most of them figure they know an edge that will beat everyone else.  It is the menal state, for instance, that allows them to convince themselves that selling pdf's of copyrighted material is OK...because who really remembers who owns this stuff, right?   :roll:

    Like the "genius," the shady dealer is also highly selective about which rules he wants to remember.  He knows all about your obligation to pay and remembers very little about the laws and rules applicable to him.


Yeh, this fits the guys that charge BIN's for $1 on stuff with $10 shipping fees: "Whoa, if I load all the money to SHIPPING I won't be charged for it by Ebay, AND the buyers won't notice the charge until they buy the item!!!! Genius!!!!"  Like they are the first moron to find that "flaw" in the system.  They don't seem to factor in that sellers that do that are generally not very successful.....


My own biggest rules lawyer moment:    A year ago I got so disgusted with the whining that I actually wrote up a contract about the interpretation of the charm person spell...wrote it right on the flyleaf of a rule book.  I forced my players to acknowledge that this was their interpretation of the rules...and then sign and date the contract.

The player-character interpretation of how the spell should affect them is now the standard also applied to NPC's and monsters.:lol:

No one even bothers to cast the spell anymore.   :wink:


Funny.  I think I'll bring back the Rules Lawyering thread...I just thought of 2-3 pretty funny examples of same.  Nothing better than hammering players with their own rules interpretations!

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:40 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:gotta say i have never really had so many problems like that with players before.

i just like to let the game roam as rule-free as i can, cos i like the role-play of a game more. far more fun.

only time it ever became a problem, was when a player joined the group and had a magical shield that i was unfamiliar with and couldnt find any reference to. not only that, i wasnt that bothered, but i felt it unbalanced the combats and the other characters playing, so i just arranged for it to be umm sorted :)

courtesy of a lovely lil rust monster that came along while they were sleeping, i rolled for a save and oh sorry did it fail? when he woke up, he had the buckle and a pile of useless metal left. was he pissed? oh you betcha.


Al


Ahh, the Rust Monster, along with the Grey Ooze, Deadly Puddings, and Green Slime, as the DM's best friend at destroying unwanted metal products adorning characters.....!

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:29 pm 
 

ah but in fairness, i DID compensate him with something that did fit into the game, so the party was more balanced to the way i wanted to do things.

but yeah stick some rules in - would be very interested in other peoples interpretations...

Al



  

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:57 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:

Yeh, this fits the guys that charge BIN's for $1 on stuff with $10 shipping fees: "Whoa, if I load all the money to SHIPPING I won't be charged for it by Ebay, AND the buyers won't notice the charge until they buy the item!!!! Genius!!!!"  Like they are the first moron to find that "flaw" in the system.  They don't seem to factor in that sellers that do that are generally not very successful.....




Funny.  I think I'll bring back the Rules Lawyering thread...I just thought of 2-3 pretty funny examples of same.  Nothing better than hammering players with their own rules interpretations!

Mike B.


  If you wanna hear player characters cry in 3.5, then have them encounter a group of rogues (thieves) of close to their level.

  Have the rogues tumble about using sneak attack and such.  Listen to the howls.

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:56 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:ah but in fairness, i DID compensate him with something that did fit into the game, so the party was more balanced to the way i wanted to do things.

but yeah stick some rules in - would be very interested in other peoples interpretations...

Al


I like my magic items to be special in some way either appearance, they glow in certain conditions they have interesting minor powers that are useful or practical etc.

When I've had players who "roll-play" rather than roleplay I like to give them items that function better when they roleplay. Alot of powergamers are quite forceful and vocal players in my experience and giving them weapons and items that function better under certain conditions that encourage good roleplaying habits also help drive the plot. By all means give the guy +3 sword at level 2 but make him work for it! It's easy enough to give an additional +2 to attacks to the player next to him for attacking from behind for example. Eventually even the most stupid powergamer will realise you don't need to own the best weapon in the party and that if you manage things correctly, he or she will come to realise the most effective members of the party aren't the ones in the best gear they merely use what they have more effectively.

  


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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:55 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Yeh, this fits the guys that charge BIN's for $1 on stuff with $10 shipping fees: "Whoa, if I load all the money to SHIPPING I won't be charged for it by Ebay, AND the buyers won't notice the charge until they buy the item!!!! Genius!!!!"  Like they are the first moron to find that "flaw" in the system.  They don't seem to factor in that sellers that do that are generally not very successful.....

Not only unsuccessful, but in violation of eBay's policy.  (I'm sure most of you know this already, but just in case someone who doesn't is listening...)  Quite simply, if someone tries to hose you on shipping/handling, don't pay!  If the seller refuses to budge, file a complaint with eBay and they'll handle it.

eBay wrote:A shipping and handling fee can cover the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item.
...
Users may not post listings with low prices but unreasonably high shipping or handling costs. This practise is considered an unacceptable way of circumventing eBay's fees. To report a listing that circumvents eBay fees through unreasonably high shipping or handling costs, contact us with the item number.

Whether the bidder "notices" before or after the auction is finished is irrelevant, this isn't a bear trap, it's an auction.   :roll:

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Post Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:10 pm 
 

Will Ebay actually do anything?  Won't you just end up losing the item you wanted and getting a negative feedback?


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Post Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 4:40 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:VERY BIG BUYER BEWARE

eBay listings

The guy from Ypsilanti Michigan who stole a bunch of people's money (including Marlith's) back around November is back up in operation again. I would strongly suggest avoiding this seller like the plague. This guy seems to be the newest albiet different version of jonb. This one just happens to reside in Michigan and not Virgina and could care less about auction descrition.


As predicted, this seller has already flamed out. :roll:

eBay Feedback Profile for 7045carln


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