This seller is probably an OK guy.

   I call the type of person who wants to "beat" Ebay a "genius."

   A "genius" (with sarcasm) is a guy who thinks the rest of us are abominably stupid for following the rules...so he feels OK with breaking them.  He thinks the rest of us are suckers and he is soooo clever.

   There was a "genius" guy who I met at our local game store, playing the game, Necromunda (underhive gang skirmish rules for Warhammer 40,000).

   This guy was classic "genius."  For instance, in Necromunda, literal line of sight (from the miniature's head) is part of the rules.  This guy did not glue-on the arms to his plastic miniatures so that he could move the arms straight up...out of sight...until his turn.

   Another time, he brought a "gang" of adeptus arbites police officers, in armor and with special stats, to the weekend battles.  He insisted that because White Dwarf had published rules for this squad, it was a legal "gang."  (Starting points for a gang was 1000...a squad of adeptus arbites would have cost about 1600 points.)

  The problem for him was, like any other "genius," was that he was more concerned with beating the rules...and seeming smart...than actually being smart.  My legal gangs routinely massacred his cheater-monkey crap.  Not even close...not even particularly challenging.

   I introduced his armored troopers to the concept of shotguns and "knock-back" and the inadvisablity of standing in the open on high catwalks.  

  He accused me of cheating every time.  I would then show him the rulebook and the legal rules he had not bothered to master.  He considered it unfair that someone would not be stunned by his "genius."  He finally stormed out one Saturday night (after another massacre) and never returned to the Necromunda tournaments.

   The last time I heard of him, one of my buddies had met him in a Magic: The Gathering tournament at the WOTC world headquarters, in Seattle's U-District.  And, yes, this "genius" had a genius plan for beating that game as well.  He stormed out of the tournament when my friend beat him handily......claiming that my friend was violating "the spirit of the rules."

   My guess is that roughly 10% of the people on Ebay would qualify for the title of "genius."  It is my hunch that these people account for as much as 90% of the negative experiences to be had there.

Mark  

I like Al's term: Muppet

ShaneG.

Plaag wrote:I like Al's term: Muppet

ShaneG.

well yes indeed - muppet says it so well

imbecile and ingrate are two others i like

Al

MShipley88 wrote:This seller is probably an OK guy.

   I call the type of person who wants to "beat" Ebay a "genius."

   A "genius" (with sarcasm) is a guy who thinks the rest of us are abominably stupid for following the rules...so he feels OK with breaking them.  He thinks the rest of us are suckers and he is soooo clever.

Interestingly, Mark, your word "genius" has the samedefinition as my word "Fuckhead".  Reminds of of all the D&D rules lawyers I have run into during the years who think when they exploit a certain loophole it's "brilliant", but when you turn the rule back on them, it's "cheating". Like the dude I DM'ed once who thought carrying a dozen "molotov cocktails" of oil was "genius" because of all the damage they did (2-12 pts, then 1-6 next round, then 1-3 last round) and you didn't even have to be proficient!  And he was racking up the experience points also...until that mage with the Burning hands spell through it at his character...and his flasks started failing saves..
WHOOOOMPH!
Nothing funnier than a guy's character getting something like 50 pts of fire damage when he's low level and his character is so crispy fried that raising him is impossible.  Come to think of it, THAT guy stormed out of the game also saying I "cheated" since the mage "picked on his character instead of the others"...maybe it was the SAME guy you were gaming with Mark....

Mike B.

And....

    I also had an oil tanker character in one of my games who failed his saving throw versus fireball and went up like...well...an oil tanker.  I think he had something like 16 flasks of oil on him.

    I let his character be raised from the dead...but the guy had to wear a mask from then on to conceal his horribly burned visage....which could not be regenerated into its original form.  The player accepted his fatal choice and built the masked character into a good storyline.  

    I have always made a point to warn players about the dangers of the choice to carry lots of oil.

    The thing about a "genius" is that he generally assumes that no one else could ever have thought of whatever plan he wishes to try.  Therefore, when his plan fails to work...or backfires on him because of the fatal flaws clearly visible to others...he tends to blame either fate or the game master.  It's never his fault.  

   That is the kind of mindset that creates a shady dealer.  Most of them figure they know an edge that will beat everyone else.  It is the menal state, for instance, that allows them to convince themselves that selling pdf's of copyrighted material is OK...because who really remembers who owns this stuff, right?  

    Like the "genius," the shady dealer is also highly selective about which rules he wants to remember.  He knows all about your obligation to pay and remembers very little about the laws and rules applicable to him.

    Another irony of the "genius" is that he considers others to be rules lawyers.  His interpretation of the rules is always both incredibly clever and completely accurate.  When other people point out that he is cheating...or has a very selective memory...he claims they are violating "the spirit of the game."  Since he cannot be wrong, that is the only possible explanation.

   This was exactly the attitude of that guy who recently wanted Deadlord to pay for something like $10,000 worth of his illegal pdf files.  He insisted that Frank's bogus Ebay persona had to pay for the auctions...while also insisting that Frank was a rules lawyer for pointing out that he was in violation of federal law...big violation.

   In recent years, I have given up arguing about the rules.  (And, to be sure, 3.5 has few rules arguments.)  Instead, I generally let the player have it his way unless the other players are willing to argue for my point of view.  Later, when the heat of the moment is gone, I go back and clarify the rule for future reference.

My own biggest rules lawyer moment:    A year ago I got so disgusted with the whining that I actually wrote up a contract about the interpretation of the charm person spell...wrote it right on the flyleaf of a rule book.  I forced my players to acknowledge that this was their interpretation of the rules...and then sign and date the contract.

The player-character interpretation of how the spell should affect them is now the standard also applied to NPC's and monsters.

No one even bothers to cast the spell anymore.  

Yes, I know I'm off topic.

I bought a couple things from Tonya recently.  They were both very nice and the price was right.  

Mark  

MShipley88 wrote:
   That is the kind of mindset that creates a shady dealer.  Most of them figure they know an edge that will beat everyone else.  It is the menal state, for instance, that allows them to convince themselves that selling pdf's of copyrighted material is OK...because who really remembers who owns this stuff, right?  

    Like the "genius," the shady dealer is also highly selective about which rules he wants to remember.  He knows all about your obligation to pay and remembers very little about the laws and rules applicable to him.

Yeh, this fits the guys that charge BIN's for $1 on stuff with $10 shipping fees: "Whoa, if I load all the money to SHIPPING I won't be charged for it by Ebay, AND the buyers won't notice the charge until they buy the item!!!! Genius!!!!"  Like they are the first moron to find that "flaw" in the system.  They don't seem to factor in that sellers that do that are generally not very successful.....

My own biggest rules lawyer moment:    A year ago I got so disgusted with the whining that I actually wrote up a contract about the interpretation of the charm person spell...wrote it right on the flyleaf of a rule book.  I forced my players to acknowledge that this was their interpretation of the rules...and then sign and date the contract.

The player-character interpretation of how the spell should affect them is now the standard also applied to NPC's and monsters.

No one even bothers to cast the spell anymore.  

Funny.  I think I'll bring back the Rules Lawyering thread...I just thought of 2-3 pretty funny examples of same.  Nothing better than hammering players with their own rules interpretations!

Mike B.

ah but in fairness, i DID compensate him with something that did fit into the game, so the party was more balanced to the way i wanted to do things.

but yeah stick some rules in - would be very interested in other peoples interpretations...

Al

killjoy32 wrote:ah but in fairness, i DID compensate him with something that did fit into the game, so the party was more balanced to the way i wanted to do things.

but yeah stick some rules in - would be very interested in other peoples interpretations...

Al

I like my magic items to be special in some way either appearance, they glow in certain conditions they have interesting minor powers that are useful or practical etc.

When I've had players who "roll-play" rather than roleplay I like to give them items that function better when they roleplay. Alot of powergamers are quite forceful and vocal players in my experience and giving them weapons and items that function better under certain conditions that encourage good roleplaying habits also help drive the plot. By all means give the guy +3 sword at level 2 but make him work for it! It's easy enough to give an additional +2 to attacks to the player next to him for attacking from behind for example. Eventually even the most stupid powergamer will realise you don't need to own the best weapon in the party and that if you manage things correctly, he or she will come to realise the most effective members of the party aren't the ones in the best gear they merely use what they have more effectively.