The BIG Taboo!
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:58 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
RWilson wrote:Hi,

I am kind of a collector but mostly I just like to read the cool old stuff: where do you go to get a pdf of ST1? This thread is quite the tease....someone answer me before something drastic happens!!!!


well first of all you need to get hold of the mod then use adobe acrobat pro to make a pdf and then voila! :D :D :D


Do you need Acrobate Professional. I thought that allowed you to create PDF files that could be filled in. To just create PDF files I think all you need is the Standard Acrobat ($199.00) version. There is also a great little program called PDF995 that will allow you to create PDF files.


Information Superhighway - A Rough Whimper of Insanity - Scott Hansen

  


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:22 pm 
 

RWilson wrote:Hi,

I am kind of a collector but mostly I just like to read the cool old stuff: where do you go to get a pdf of ST1? This thread is quite the tease....someone answer me before something drastic happens!!!!

I'd be surprised if you haven't received an offer by now.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:18 pm 
 

afoolandhis$ wrote:
bclarkie wrote:Heh, I know of a Canadian buyer who just happend to find a pretty nice Lost Caverns of Tsojconth at a used book store for $1.99. :wink:


Sure, DRIVE the stake through my heart, would ya.

Just checking for vampires.  You're clear.  :wink:

 YIM  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:07 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:
First off, I do not know if you found my post insulting, but it was not intended to be. I can also respect your desire to want to use the materials for play, but I am sorry that is not justification for you to have to pay less to get the same material that I have paid for because you are willing to settle for a copy. I, like Al, am by no means anywhere near rich. However, I chose to pay a fair amount to get the stuff that I want because it is my hobby. As far as paying an honest price for material you are basically saying that even though that there were only 1000 printed 1st print Woodgrain box sets 30 years ago of which many were detroyed over time so who know how few actually exist now that the going rate is not a fair price. IMO if you want it bad enough, you will pay the going rate to get it, if you dont want it bad enough then you wont. If you find that insulting then I really dont know what to say. I mean shit why bother to set different prices for homes, cars, appliances, etc., because I would love to live in a mansion instead of an apartment, I would love to drive a Mercedes instead of a Cavalier, and while I am at it, I also want a 60" LCD TV with a full Dolby Surround sound system.


I did not at any time say that the going rate for a 1st print Woodgrain box was not a fair price for the original item. But I also contend that a reprint of the contents of the books inside the Woodgrain box clearly labled reprint 2005 on the cover would not in any way affect the price that on a small number of collectors would ever pay in the first place. My home is paid for, I could mortgage it to pay the going rate and buy a copy if it were offered, but that would be an irresponsible thing to do. It is disingenious IMO to argue that a reprint will affect the actions of hardcore collectors when bidding on rare items. You might use your credit to buy a 1st printing for $15,000+ or whatever it is they would go for, but as a widowed mother of twins I could never justify doing so, although I am capable of raising the money to do so. However, if WOTC would issue a reprint Clearly marked "REPRINT 2005" on the cover for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th printings for oh say $100.00 each in say an 8.5 x 11 inch hardback format I would be interested in buying those. It is the information that I want, I do not care about the collectability, I presonally think that most of the people who are interested in the rarest item would never mortgage their house to buy them so reprints would not affect the market for the rares. The things that are not rare I have already gotten my copies at what I consider to be fair prices.

As for the prices that I noted above for a 5th & 6th printing, I bought both my 5th printing and my 6th printing for under $50.00 each between January and April of this year. I find it rather odd that prices have doubled in the last 6 months, that to me indicates something fishy is going on.

As for your contention that eBay prices are fair market rates, I am a bit skeptical of that:

cgi.ebay.com/Dungeons-Dragons-White-Box ... dZViewItem

This is one of many listing where IMO the buyer would be a sucker. I consider this to be a unethical listing. First of all IMO it is questionable to describe a 6th printing as rare and it is definitely not ethical to not identify the printing in the listing. The implication of the listing is that this is the original first printing and I think that is the reason for the price escalation of 6th printings in general is that the majority of the 6th printing listing imply or even state that it is the original printing which is not true. People are bidding on these thinking that they are getting something really rare and valuable and it is not the case. EBay is strictly a buyer beware environment, I think that preying on the uninformed is rampant on eBay.

I was able to get

OD&D 5th printing
OD&D 6th printing
Chainmail TSR 3rd Ed
Greyhawk Supplement I
Blackmoor Supplement II
Eldritch Wizardy Supplement III
Gods, Demi-Gods & Heros Supplement IV
Swords & Spells Supplement V

for about $180.00 plus shipping

Now 6 months later, I would be hard pressed to get the lot for under $400.00, it seems like rather rapid price inflation to me.


[quote="GamersRest[FNG]"].pdf forms of damn near every TSR item are already out there FOR FREE, you just have to be willing to violate copyright law to get them. If you pay for a .pdf then you are a fool in my opinion (note I have bought pdfs from drivethrurpg so yes I am a bit of a fool).[/quote]
What you call being a fool, many people call being honest. I have bought .pdfs at rpgnow, I won't do business with drivethrurpg, when I print something to use, I don't want the text obscured by a big prominent watermark and if I am going to do business with someone I don't appreciate being accused in advance without evidence of being crooked which is what the use of the watermark does.

And just for the record, I much prefer a book to a pdf. But if pdfs of the rares were offered, I would buy them. As I noted, if a 1st printing Woodgrain Box of OD&D were offered for sale, I could mortgage my house and buy it, but I would not do so since it would be irresponsible to do so. If this item were offered there would be, what, maybe 50 people in the country that would bid on it. I content that a reprint will not affect those 50 people.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:33 am 
 

Llaurenela wrote:As I noted, if a 1st printing Woodgrain Box of OD&D were offered for sale, I could mortgage my house and buy it, but I would not do so since it would be irresponsible to do so.

I agree completely.  What you really need to do is lower your sigths.  Maybe a 3rd print woodgrain.  Does anyone have one for sale? :oops:

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:45 am 
 

johnhuck wrote:
Llaurenela wrote:As I noted, if a 1st printing Woodgrain Box of OD&D were offered for sale, I could mortgage my house and buy it, but I would not do so since it would be irresponsible to do so.

I agree completely. What you really need to do is lower your sigths. Maybe a 3rd print woodgrain. Does anyone have one for sale? :oops:

:lol:

Heh. All I want from that auction are the ref sheets, so I won't bid you up to more than $1,500, Llaurenela. :o

*jk* :P

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:53 am 
 

Llaurenela wrote:
I did not at any time say that the going rate for a 1st print Woodgrain box was not a fair price for the original item. But I also contend that a reprint of the contents of the books inside the Woodgrain box clearly labled reprint 2005 on the cover would not in any way affect the price that on a small number of collectors would ever pay in the first place. My home is paid for, I could mortgage it to pay the going rate and buy a copy if it were offered, but that would be an irresponsible thing to do. It is disingenious IMO to argue that a reprint will affect the actions of hardcore collectors when bidding on rare items.
Well there certainly is a difference is selling a completely reformatted book then there is in selling pdfs, so I can't argue that point, however the cost of such a venture I would imagine would far exceed any possible profit that WOTC could gain by embarking in such a venture. Additionally from a gaming perspective, as far as content goes, the difference between an 6th printing OCE set and a 1st print woodgrain is nominal to say the least, and as a matter of fact due to all the printing error, inconsistancies and other errors purchasing an OCE would make more sense if you are simply interested in the gaming perspective.
Llaurenela wrote: You might use your credit to buy a 1st printing for $15,000+ or whatever it is they would go for, but as a widowed mother of twins I could never justify doing so, although I am capable of raising the money to do so.
The going rate for a first print woodgrain set isnt anywhere near $15000.00 at this point depending on condition I do not believe one has exceeded $2500.00 yet. Don't get me wrong that is still a ton of money, but not anywhere close to $15,000.00. I personally picked up a fair condition 1st print woodgrain a couple of months ago for $740.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5218584620

Once again that is a lot of money for a casual collector, but based on the fact that I wanted one and accepting the fact that I at this point am not able to pay the going rate for one in much better condition, I am quite happy with the one I won. :)

Llaurenela wrote: As for the prices that I noted above for a 5th & 6th printing, I bought both my 5th printing and my 6th printing for under $50.00 each between January and April of this year. I find it rather odd that prices have doubled in the last 6 months, that to me indicates something fishy is going on.
I dont think its anything fishy, I think you actually got yourself a couple of pretty good deals there. :wink: Truthfully the market ebbs and flows depending on several factors from how many currently are listed on EBay at the current moment and also IMHO the time that they are being sold has a lot to do with it as well. The going rate most of the for white box sets is usually between $85.00 and $130.00.

Llaurenela wrote: As for your contention that eBay prices are fair market rates, I am a bit skeptical of that:

cgi.ebay.com/Dungeons-Dragons-White-Box ... dZViewItem

This is one of many listing where IMO the buyer would be a sucker. I consider this to be a unethical listing. First of all IMO it is questionable to describe a 6th printing as rare and it is definitely not ethical to not identify the printing in the listing.


I am with you 100% there, however there are many unethical sellers on EBay. That set is sitting there because the seller is clearly fishing for some idiot who has no idea what the real value of one these sets are and will just buy one on a whim. I have actually posted a lot about this type of shady dealing, in particular about creep1962 who if you look at his store prices, they are set up with only that purpose in mind:

eBay listings

I have basically been on personal crusade over that last 4 months in regards to creep1962 because of this unethical selling(here is one of many examples):

Silliest auction price of 2004-2005 announced!

Just last week creep1962 came on to this site and posted a bunch of BS about how the market is way undervalued and he was going to find the cealing. :roll:: Here is a link to the thread he created:

creep ?


Llaurenela wrote:
bclarkie wrote:.pdf forms of damn near every TSR item are already out there FOR FREE, you just have to be willing to violate copyright law to get them. If you pay for a .pdf then you are a fool in my opinion (note I have bought pdfs from drivethrurpg so yes I am a bit of a fool).

What you call being a fool, many people call being honest. I have bought .pdfs at rpgnow, I won't do business with drivethrurpg, when I print something to use, I don't want the text obscured by a big prominent watermark and if I am going to do business with someone I don't appreciate being accused in advance without evidence of being crooked which is what the use of the watermark does.


I didn't write that quoted material, Jeff<gamersrest[FNG]> did. :) I have never actually purchased any pdfs(other that the Dragon Magazine Archive that is :P) and I have no desire to own them personally. :)


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:56 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:I do not believe one has exceeded $2500.00 yet.

*coughs*

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:58 am 
 

harami2000 wrote:
bclarkie wrote:I do not believe one has exceeded $2500.00 yet.

*coughs*


D, Do you know something that I don't know?  :)


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:59 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:
harami2000 wrote:*coughs*


D, Do you know something that I don't know? :)

Apparently so. ;)


(oh, and "missing flap and pages" = "fair"?
OK, maybe I'd agree, but that's a personal rather than Acaeum assessment of condition ;))

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:02 am 
 

harami2000 wrote:
Apparently so. ;)


I am assuming that you are refering to one of Paul's recent 1st printing sales. :) I never got the low down on the final price for either of those so that would explain that.

harami2000 wrote: (oh, and "missing flap and pages" = "fair"?
OK, maybe I'd agree, but that's a personal rather than Acaeum assessment of condition ;))


I am going out on a limbe here and saying you think by Acaeum standards it would rate poor. :wink:


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:12 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:
harami2000 wrote: (oh, and "missing flap and pages" = "fair"?
OK, maybe I'd agree, but that's a personal rather than Acaeum assessment of condition ;))

I am going out on a limbe here and saying you think by Acaeum standards it would rate poor. :wink:

Yep. Didn't stop me bidding to within $10 of yourself, though, since I needed a few of the components.


Sorry, digressing...

(Back on topic, clearly marked reprint copies would be cool... :)
"Collector's collector's edition"? (and the rest))

  

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:13 am 
 

harami2000 wrote:
johnhuck wrote:I agree completely. What you really need to do is lower your sigths. Maybe a 3rd print woodgrain. Does anyone have one for sale? :oops:

:lol:

Heh. All I want from that auction are the ref sheets, so I won't bid you up to more than $1,500, Llaurenela. :o

*jk* :P


hey i am winning that auction - lemme alone - me wants it



  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:20 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Llaurenela wrote:
What you call being a fool, many people call being honest. I have bought .pdfs at rpgnow, I won't do business with drivethrurpg, when I print something to use, I don't want the text obscured by a big prominent watermark and if I am going to do business with someone I don't appreciate being accused in advance without evidence of being crooked which is what the use of the watermark does.


I didn't write that quoted material, Jeff<gamersrest[FNG]> did. :) I have never actually purchased any pdfs(other that the Dragon Magazine Archive that is :P) and I have no desire to own them personally. :)


That was indeed me, just adding fuel to fire.

~jeff

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:25 pm 
 

Llaurenela wrote:What you call being a fool, many people call being honest. I have bought .pdfs at rpgnow, I won't do business with drivethrurpg, when I print something to use, I don't want the text obscured by a big prominent watermark and if I am going to do business with someone I don't appreciate being accused in advance without evidence of being crooked which is what the use of the watermark does.


I am sorry, I did not mean to confuse you there.  My comment had nothing to do with honesty vs theft, just a note about scarcity vs value.  I personally place no monetary value on that which is not scarce.  As such I think buying .pdfs is silly.  Buying something like the Dragon Magazine Archive is different, as you are purchasing the physical artifact which is scarce, even if you are just buying it for the pdf files.

~jeff

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:51 pm 
 

Marlith wrote:Do you need Acrobate Professional. I thought that allowed you to create PDF files that could be filled in. To just create PDF files I think all you need is the Standard Acrobat ($199.00) version. There is also a great little program called PDF995 that will allow you to create PDF files.

There's a great little program called CutePDF (google for it) that allows you to print any document to a virtual printer and redirect the output to a file in PDF format.  The best part is it works for all your applications, as it shows up as a local printer.  I don't recommend this for copyrighted works, such as ST1, however...  :?

 YIM  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:25 pm 
 

My apologies, I have corrected the quote in my post. I missed that it was not your comments and attributed it wrongly.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:26 pm 
 

GamersRest[FNG] wrote:
Llaurenela wrote:What you call being a fool, many people call being honest. I have bought .pdfs at rpgnow, I won't do business with drivethrurpg, when I print something to use, I don't want the text obscured by a big prominent watermark and if I am going to do business with someone I don't appreciate being accused in advance without evidence of being crooked which is what the use of the watermark does.


I am sorry, I did not mean to confuse you there. My comment had nothing to do with honesty vs theft, just a note about scarcity vs value. I personally place no monetary value on that which is not scarce. As such I think buying .pdfs is silly. Buying something like the Dragon Magazine Archive is different, as you are purchasing the physical artifact which is scarce, even if you are just buying it for the pdf files.

~jeff


I only go to a pdf when I can not find something at what I consider a fair price or at least on that I feel I can afford.

  
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