Research Help: Dungeon Masters Guide
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:15 pm 
 

OK, that's much clearer.  And I can see where you're coming from.  Please post your revised listing draft in a separate message, and we can work on it from there.

Unfortunately for collectors, if we accept this sequence as correct (which it would appear to be), a True 1st print is effectively worthless -- there's simply too many of them still in circulation.  A 2nd print with the MM pages, or a 3rd print scarred cover, would be worth more, since they're significantly rarer -- but since they're later printings, the nostalgia factor is diminished, reducing their value, too.  But that's the way these things go sometimes.

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:49 am 
 

FoulFoot wrote:Unfortunately for collectors, if we accept this sequence as correct (which it would appear to be), a True 1st print is effectively worthless -- there's simply too many of them still in circulation.  A 2nd print with the MM pages, or a 3rd print scarred cover, would be worth more, since they're significantly rarer -- but since they're later printings, the nostalgia factor is diminished, reducing their value, too.  But that's the way these things go sometimes.

Was under the impression you said "let the marketplace dictate the price", or somesuch, Scott? i.e. that you'd only utilise eBay realisations, rather than set values pre-emptively.

Is the above a change of stance, or an attempt to dictate to the marketplace (at least until you've got copies... sorry, jab ^^)?

Can't see how the nostalgia factor is diminished greatly (1979 or, erm, 1979); only that the "must have 1st print/number 1" camp tendency (which is even more prevalent nowadays) is gonna be somewhat thrown out of their usual pedantic rhythm.

All of Paul's re-evaluations are still in "early days" mode, anyhow.
The sequence "feels" much better now, but the relative scarcities are very difficult to gauge.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:50 am 
 

harami2000 wrote:
FoulFoot wrote:Unfortunately for collectors, if we accept this sequence as correct (which it would appear to be), a True 1st print is effectively worthless -- there's simply too many of them still in circulation.  A 2nd print with the MM pages, or a 3rd print scarred cover, would be worth more, since they're significantly rarer -- but since they're later printings, the nostalgia factor is diminished, reducing their value, too.  But that's the way these things go sometimes.

Was under the impression you said "let the marketplace dictate the price", or somesuch, Scott? i.e. that you'd only utilise eBay realisations, rather than set values pre-emptively.

Is the above a change of stance, or an attempt to dictate to the marketplace (at least until you've got copies... sorry, jab ^^)?

Can't see how the nostalgia factor is diminished greatly (1979 or, erm, 1979); only that the "must have 1st print/number 1" camp tendency (which is even more prevalent nowadays) is gonna be somewhat thrown out of their usual pedantic rhythm.

All of Paul's re-evaluations are still in "early days" mode, anyhow.
The sequence "feels" much better now, but the relative scarcities are very difficult to gauge.

Sorry guys wasn't trying to steer this into a "valuation" thread...clearly the market will always dictate the real dollar value, but once the sequence is "Acaeum approved" it's unlikely I'll be picking up any more 1st prints at a cheap price.  It's fairly clear that nobody is going to make a fortune on this one, anyway.

The combined purchase value of my two copies was $19, for reference.  I bought them individually in July 2004, and neither were in great condition.  I strongly suspect I'll be able to sell one now for $20, and at least recover my money.  That's about $20 pure profit if I sell both, and it only took 7 months. :)  

I could have just cut back on the cigarettes and saved maybe $1000, that's "one Inverness dollar" for those of you in the back row...

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:07 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Sorry guys wasn't trying to steer this into a "valuation" thread...clearly the market will always dictate the real dollar value, but once the sequence is "Acaeum approved" it's unlikely I'll be picking up any more 1st prints at a cheap price.  It's fairly clear that nobody is going to make a fortune on this one, anyway.

Agreed.

I don't think the 2" banner logo copies were going for 99 cents each recently, anyhow; not since that printing point was first highlighted here some time ago.

And any copies with MM pages were not going to go cheaply, if that printing point had been noted by the seller.

Is still very good to have things neat-and-tidy, though, regardless of the $ issues... :)


(Sorry, I should've clarified that my other gripe was with the way the T1st prices were just slapped on the listing, back in August- without any evidence of availability- prior to detailed research into actual printing order or relative scarcities. Might not be 100% yet, but is certainly much better...
Looked kinda silly at the time and even more so now... Not a "confidence booster", anyhow, IMHO).

  

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:26 am 
 

i think it will be just nice to know a proper "agreed" order of things. from a collecting perspective, thats exactly what you look for....the value is always second imo. thats the way i look at things anyway.



  


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:37 am 
 

Howdy Fellas,


Well, what do you think?

New Print Chronolgy for DMG

If anyone sees a discrepancy with a copy they own. Please email me at [email protected]. If anyone has a 232 page DMG, double check to see if the endpapers are double pasted. We need to find a copy of a 3rd Print, Beta and Gamma!

I have only examined the original art version of the DMG. I have not gone into the Easley cover. Anyone know what the first udpdated print information states?

I'll be posting research on the other two hardcovers, MM and PH, as well. Nothing quite so earthshaking but a lot more landmarks and some quietly added text not found on the errata list!


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Paul


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:39 am 
 

I just did a very quick, completely unscientific poll on eBay for 1st Ed. DMGs.  This is in no way representative of the market, but it's a quick check just for fun.  The results are not really surprising, but I thought I'd share:
    15-DMGs found, not counting those in large lots, etc.
    5-were "demon covers".
    1-potentially matched Paul's requirements (flyleaf color unknown, # of pages unknown, so maybe not even that one)
    0-2" copies.
Guess who is selling the single eligible copy?  Cougar.  :D

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:32 pm 
 

*bump*


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:34 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:*bump*

What is it we're looking for again?  I'm lost.  I have a end-paper pasted DMG at home I can check if I know what I'm looking for.

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:47 pm 
 

Howdy,


The pasted over end papers is a 2nd Beta.

Well we don't know what any of the 3rd's looks like and what is listed as a 4th might be the 3rd Gamma. It is not likely that we will ever see a 3rd Beta as the flaw was discovered at the print shop and they were pulled immediately and recovered. The latter process is probably indistinguishable.

It seems the only way to discover what a 3rd Alpha looks like is by process of elimination. Once it is determined then the 3rd Beta will be identifiable. The 3rd Gamma could look totally different.

What we need to do is look through about 1,000 copies of the DMG and pick out all of the various printings.


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:11 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:What is it we're looking for again?  I'm lost.

Me, too. It feels like we have four DMG threads all of a sudden active and competing for attention. Not that that is necessarily bad, it's just difficult for us ... slower people.

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:25 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Me, too. It feels like we have four DMG threads all of a sudden active and competing for attention. Not that that is necessarily bad, it's just difficult for us ... slower people.


I'll fix that, I bumped them all and none of them were the right thread. :oops:


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:02 am 
 

The Collector's Trove wrote:The pasted over end papers is a 2nd Beta.

Well we don't know what any of the 3rd's looks like and what is listed as a 4th might be the 3rd Gamma.

Interesting, and would explain the temporary shift to white endpapers very neatly.  However, my 4th doesn't show any obvious signs of being reconstructed.  

Assuming it's unrelated for now, any 3rd printing would be a 232-page book with orange flyleaves.  In addition, it possesses all the following traits:

No ISBN (5th)
No pasted-over endpapers/MM pages (2nd Alpha/Beta)
No logo on wizard's foot and overflowing banner text (1st)

Right?  

We can get into more detail and subprintings if anyone actually has one.  I've only got seven, I'm not about to buy 993 more just to sort out the printings.  :lol:

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:37 am 
 

Howdy,


deimos3428 wrote:Interesting, and would explain the temporary shift to white endpapers very neatly.  However, my 4th doesn't show any obvious signs of being reconstructed.


Right. It got a new cover. It is my guess that recovering a book with a new cover is indistinguishable from a book that has been covered once. Probably the only way to tell is to pull one apart and look for traces of goldenrod paper in the stitches (Volunteers?). Even then it might not be possible to identify that it had been recovered.

N.B. The 2nd Beta was recovered with it's original cover. Thus the cover was cut free from the text block, leaving the endpapaer and cloth strip that attaches it to the text block on the cover. When the cover was put back on the re-assembled text block, the endpapers and cloth strip were pasted over with the new.

Assuming it's unrelated for now, any 3rd printing would be a 232-page book with orange flyleaves.  In addition, it possesses all the following traits:

No ISBN (5th)
No pasted-over endpapers/MM pages (2nd Alpha/Beta)
No logo on wizard's foot and overflowing banner text (1st)

Right?  

We can get into more detail and subprintings if anyone actually has one.  I've only got seven, I'm not about to buy 993 more just to sort out the printings.  :lol:


Yes, you are correct, at least that is what I assumed the 3rd Alpha/Beta/Gamma would be like. Unfortunately, no one has reported a 3rd Alpha. There should be about 20,000 of them out there in theory. The problem is that they are in a sea of 120,000+ copies that are very similar

Neither has anyone turned up a 5th print. Thus, the 3rd Alpha/Beta/Gamma only exist in theory. I do not own any. I have a 1, 2a, 2b, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc.)


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Paul


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:55 pm 
 

If the 5th print you are asking about is the one currently described:

Fifth (Sept-Dec 1979)
Wizard logo
Cover art is of two adventurers fighting a large efreet
"ADVANCED D&D" in the angled yellow banner has been downsized, and no longer has the "D" of "ADVANCED" running off the edge of the cover
Wizard logo and "TSR Games" appears on the spine instead of TSR address.  Wizard logo on spine is smaller
ISBN now appears on spine and lower left corner of back cover
Endpapers and flyleaves are a yellow-orange color
232 numbered pages


I have one of those.
If you need any more information from that print let me know.

Mike

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:12 pm 
 

Howdy Mike,


Heh, well I guess I have one too, duh. I have a post-it note on it that says "4th" because I experimented with shifting the print sequence up assuming that th 4th I had was actually a 3rd Gamma. :lol:

O.K. I am going to edit that part so no one else points out that I am an idiot. :)

Good so far! Now let's see if someone can dig up a 3rd Alpha!


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Paul


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:01 pm 
 

Hi all,

small question on this book. I'm holding a sixth alpha print based on the description on the main site. The only difference is mine has 236 numbered pages whereas the site mentions 238 numbered pages.

Page 236 is called the advanced dungeons & dragons game family and is followed by perforated reference sheet Encumbrance of standard items.

Would that be a small typo on the site or am I missing a page ?

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:11 am 
 

I think it may be a small typo on the site. The last numbered page in mine is 236.

The only other thing is the very last page is a survey form. I have one dm's guide with it and one without. I can only guess someone filled out the missing one and sent it in.



Mike

  
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