New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:14 am 
 

The fact that it was advertised as a DM's copy (the only one he has ever seen) seems a bit shady.
It is NOT a DM's copy, it MAY have belonged to someone who DMed with it. I suspect the moniker of "DMs copy" was added in to relate it to Inverness and Tamoachan in order to rake in new collectors who wouldn't know there never were DMs copies of Fazzle. Heck, I would be surprised if a DM's copy of Invern or Tamo went for that much, in that condition.


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Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:55 pm 
 

.DELETED.

Already covered above.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:16 pm 
 

Blackmoor nailed it.

There are many people that have come back to the game they grew up with in the late 70s and early 80s due to the popularity of 5th edition hitting main stream and in movies...They are coming back to find out the stuff they used to write their name in and throw around the room so many years ago is not just a game and some of these items actually have worth.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:58 am 
 

benjoshua wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:
Yeah, I'm not paying that much for modules, especially ones I can't read because their are in glorified Glad Wrap.  However, if someone wants to collect and pay for this stuff, that's their prerogative.

When I played Yugioh and Pokemon when my kids were younger, someone derisively called our fun "cardboard crack."  He had a point.  There was a certain madness to paying $100.00 for some cards and ten cents for others.  I tried to keep our fun a game, but I was not completely successful.  I ended up also teaching my kids about relative value and maintaining cards in good condition.  I confess I made more than a few bucks off of buying and selling cards.  I've even made money selling gaming stuff, so maybe I'm a hypocrite.

I sense that a lot of collectors here have an interest in history, and owning objects such as these provide nostalgia that span time and space for them. The collector can connect through objects with the great events and people that these things represent.  These things can make its owner feel part of the grand sweep of gaming history, providing that connection with something larger than the individual who owns it.  I can't say that I am not also fascinated with D&D history, but auctions like this make me wonder about collecting superseding the game.  Our capitalistic system commercializes and monetizes almost everything.   Insanity?  That's a strong word.  Maybe something is rotten in Greyhawk?   ;)  And maybe I'm part of the problem.  :?


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:22 pm 
 

Like anything, the more people that are interested in it, the more that money gets involved. eBay exposed collecting to a world market on an instant basis, which drove prices through the roof in some fields.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:09 pm 
 

Deadlord wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:The fact that it was advertised as a DM's copy (the only one he has ever seen) seems a bit shady.
It is NOT a DM's copy, it MAY have belonged to someone who DMed with it. I suspect the moniker of "DMs copy" was added in to relate it to Inverness and Tamoachan in order to rake in new collectors who wouldn't know there never were DMs copies of Fazzle. Heck, I would be surprised if a DM's copy of Invern or Tamo went for that much, in that condition.


I wouldn't consider this a shady auction.  The Collector's Trove is typically very careful in the claims that are made.  This Quest for the Fazzlewood is the only one that's ever been seen with a different cover, which makes it extremely rare regardless.  It appears that Ollie Cahoon also provided the provenance on it being a DMs version as well.

Yes, it would be good to authenticate this through someone else, but it's still a unique version of this adventure, with some legitimate provenance backing it.  I don't think those that were bidding are newbies to these types of auction and probably consider it to be legitimate.

The DMs copies of any of the tourneys would go for a lot.  Maybe not as much as this one did, since it's apparently the first of its kind to be sold, but they would certainly go for a lot more than the "standard" version.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:25 pm 
 

I dont understand the T1-4. A shrink copy sold Dec 4 for 219.50 and 12 days later another copy goes for 1050.0. What is so special about that Collector Trove copy?

  

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:45 pm 
 

Reputation and provenance.  A lot of the items sold by The Collector's Trove are special, as they come from notable ex-TSR and gaming industry designers, artists, and insiders.

There is a website, in case you weren't aware:

http://thecollectorstrove.com/

  


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:36 pm 
 

dbartman wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:Reputation and provenance.  A lot of the items sold by The Collector's Trove are special, as they come from notable ex-TSR and gaming industry designers, artists, and insiders.

There is a website, in case you weren't aware:

http://thecollectorstrove.com/


You're certainly not wrong, on the other hand, in cases like this, as noted above it's beyond silly.  Reputation in no case of a fairly common item should mean a 500% increase in price, shrinkwrap or not. IMHO.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:05 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:
You're certainly not wrong, on the other hand, in cases like this, as noted above it's beyond silly.  Reputation in no case of a fairly common item should mean a 500% increase in price, shrinkwrap or not. IMHO.


You assume that all bidders should adhere to your (and most collectors) notion that they should only pay what an item's typical Market Value is. Some bidders aren't concerned with that - they just want it. Period.
If that bidder is fairly well off, the time it would take to find another more reasonably priced example of the item is more costly or more of an annoyance than just buying it when they see it. Of course, the Reputation of Seller can play a role in that also in giving them a greater level of confidence.

Did any of you hear the story a while back when a somewhat rare (but not really rare) Nintendo Game went for 8-10 times typical value. The video game collecting community about crapped themselves. Turned out the buyer was Shaquille O'Neal. He said he didn't spend much time on eBay but happened on the auction and it was one he wanted for his collection. What's a couple of hundred bucks to him, he can spend that on lunch and not sweat it for a second. I always think about though, who in the hell was the 2nd highest bidder - he or she wasn't playing around either.
Interesting side note to that story. A couple of them came on the Market right after that, with Sellers starting the bidding at the same level as the one they saw sell. None of them sold for that. When they dropped their prices, they still didn't sell. None sold again until the price went back down to about what they were going for before.
There are a few good lessons in that story, for Buyers & Sellers.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:04 pm 
 

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:You assume that all bidders should adhere to your (and most collectors) notion that they should only pay what an item's typical Market Value is. Some bidders aren't concerned with that - they just want it. Period.


That's funny, because that attitude has literally nothing to do with who is selling it. Or the provenance of the item. No one at this point has made this argument. And it also ignores the fact that if one bidder bids $1 million on an item, if the second highest bidder only bid $10, the item would have sold for $11.

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:If that bidder is fairly well off, the time it would take to find another more reasonably priced example of the item is more costly or more of an annoyance than just buying it when they see it. Of course, the Reputation of Seller can play a role in that also in giving them a greater level of confidence.


Okay. So what does that have to do with them paying 5 times the amount for the same exact item in the exact same condition that sold just a couple weeks before hand?

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:Did any of you hear the story a while back when a somewhat rare (but not really rare) Nintendo Game went for 8-10 times typical value. The video game collecting community about crapped themselves. Turned out the buyer was Shaquille O'Neal. He said he didn't spend much time on eBay but happened on the auction and it was one he wanted for his collection. What's a couple of hundred bucks to him, he can spend that on lunch and not sweat it for a second. I always think about though, who in the hell was the 2nd highest bidder - he or she wasn't playing around either.
Interesting side note to that story. A couple of them came on the Market right after that, with Sellers starting the bidding at the same level as the one they saw sell. None of them sold for that. When they dropped their prices, they still didn't sell. None sold again until the price went back down to about what they were going for before.


Ignoring the fact that this story is an anecdote, and the fact it's a one off anecdote at that(I'd loved to read about it, if you have a link),  it also once again requires a second bidder willing to bump the price up. At minimum. Bill Gates can place a bid of $20 billion on an particular auction, if the under bidder only bids $5, it still only goes for $6.

And even if the under bidder happens to be Tim Cook who ended up bidding only $19,999,999,999.00 for it, that doesn't make a particular auction any less ridiculous. I mean, you get that, right?

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:There are a few good lessons in that story, for Buyers & Sellers.


Which is?  If you're a seller, hope you get lucky with a Shaq bid against someone who wants to win an auction at all costs?  And if you're a buyer, don't fall into that trap?


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:42 am 
 


** expired/removed eBay auction **


Available now from Die Cast Games: Night of the Black Swords by Allen Hammack (Author of C2-The Ghost Tower of Inverness) with artwork by Jeff Easley and Diesel.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:48 am 
 

bclarkie wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:story is an anecdote, and the fact it's a one off anecdote


Yep...this one's still making nonsensical arguments about nothing. People are still complaining that the other one hasn't sent them the kickstarter they paid for. Another year passed, & the Acaeum is still the same old place...yep...[takes another beer from cooler]

  


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:33 pm 
 

Already know better than to engage. :)


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Last edited by bclarkie on Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:17 pm 
 


** expired/removed eBay auction **


Available now from Die Cast Games: Night of the Black Swords by Allen Hammack (Author of C2-The Ghost Tower of Inverness) with artwork by Jeff Easley and Diesel.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:22 am 
 

bclarkie wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:Already know better than to engage. :)


Not sure what happened to your post, Mr Yuk.  But this particular comment that I edited was not directed to you. I had initially responded to a different subsequent post against my better judgement. I realized my error, but due to the fact burntwire had already posted something beyond it, I was unable to delete it and just edited it.


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Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:30 am 
 

bclarkie wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:
Not sure what happened to your post, Mr Yuk.  But this particular comment that I edited was not directed to you.


Cool, I'm still learning how to script, I was having trouble with the bold


Sorry you had to wait.

It seems like the biggest problem you had with what I had to say is that you don't think I know how an Auction works. I didn't spell it out to you because I assumed we all knew that. Here's that Shaq story again with the part highlighted for you so that you can infer that I did know that the 2nd highest bidder does set the ending price on an Auction.

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:Did any of you hear the story a while back when a somewhat rare (but not really rare) Nintendo Game went for 8-10 times typical value. The video game collecting community about crapped themselves. Turned out the buyer was Shaquille O'Neal. He said he didn't spend much time on eBay but happened on the auction and it was one he wanted for his collection. What's a couple of hundred bucks to him, he can spend that on lunch and not sweat it for a second. I always think about though, who in the hell was the 2nd highest bidder - he or she wasn't playing around either.


You don't think that one of eBay's Highest Quality Sellers should (or do) command much higher prices than the generic eBay Sellers do. I don't know what to tell you, but examples of them are all over eBay. I assume you only collect gaming, unfortunately the better examples of them are not in that category. A few examples off the top of my head:

grapefruitmoongallery - vintage photos, reproduction art & metalware

flikmywick - Victorian Desk items, Mechanical Pencils, Fobs, etc

decolady1 - mid to lower grade Art Deco decorator items

fa - FrankArt & Quoizel items (old)

These are all Sellers on eBay that consistently command top prices in their respective categories. 2-10 times what other sellers get for the same item. They do that by consistently offering items people want and giving the appearance of being experts in their fields of selling. I'm sure they have hundreds of people that go straight to their Listings every time they Post. While I don't feel the need to buy from any of these Sellers, many people do. I spend my time becoming knowledgeable in the items I'm most interested in purchasing, buying from lesser sellers, and saving the difference in cost. I do reference these sellers frequently because they really do know their stuff (except decolady1, she just puts on a good show).

Getting back to the question at hand, why did the shrink T1-4 sell so high? I think a good guess would be that at least TWO fairly well off Collectors that weren't comfortable in determining authentic shrink felt that Auction was there best bet to get an Authentic original Shrink T1-4. Or maybe it was just a pissing contest, who knows - this is all just speculation. For all we know, maybe both bidders never had any intention of paying and they were just farting around.

As far as my little story goes, I was following a conversation in the original eBay forums around 2000-ish. The Shaq part of the story was from, I believe, Yahoo News. The original forum is long gone, as is the Auction Listing for the Video Game. If the Shaq story is still around somewhere - I have no idea where and I'm not spending any more time on this than I already have - believe or disbelieve whatever you want, really that's fine - I'm very skeptical too.

As far as what can be learned for the story, you basically have it right. You can't count on finding a "Shaq" to be interested in what you are selling but you can find a buyer that places a very high value on what you have, sometimes those are NOT what we would consider "real" Collectors.


Last edited by Mister Yuk on Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:48 am 
 

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:
Sorry you had to wait.


No need to apologize, as noted my second post wasn't not in regard to this conversation. I initially took some *obvious* bait and realized my error.

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:It seems like the biggest problem you had with what I had to say is that you don't think I know how an Auction works. I didn't spell it out to you because I assumed we all knew that. Here's that Shaq story again with the part highlighted for you so that you can infer that I did know that the 2nd highest bidder does set the ending price on an Auction.




I understood it the first time. That does not exclude the final price from being any less ridiculous. Especially considering that the exact same item in pretty much identical condition sold less than 3 weeks earlier.  

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:You don't think that one of eBay's Highest Quality Sellers should (or do) command much higher prices than the generic eBay Sellers do. I don't know what to tell you, but examples of them are all over eBay. I assume you only collect gaming, unfortunately the better examples of them are not in that category. A few examples off the top of my head:

grapefruitmoongallery - vintage photos, reproduction art & metalware

flikmywick - Victorian Desk items, Mechanical Pencils, Fobs, etc

decolady1 - mid to lower grade Art Deco decorator items

fa - FrankArt & Quoizel items (old)

These are all Sellers on eBay that consistently command top prices in their respective categories. 2-10 times what other sellers get for the same item. They do that by consistently offering items people want and giving the appearance of being experts in their fields of selling. I'm they have hundreds of people that go straight to their Listings every time they Post. While I don't feel the need to buy from any of these Sellers, many people do. I spend my time becoming knowledgeable in the items I'm most interested in purchasing, buying from lesser sellers, and saving the difference in cost. I do reference these sellers frequently because they really do know their stuff (except decolady1, she just puts on a good show).


Paul is not the only game in town in that respect. Including the guy(s) who just posted above(burntwire), this forum contains many folks who are longtime, well known and extremely reputable in selling items, many of which are both high value and for lack of a better term, well vetted. That helps them get higher prices than the average for sure, but rarely if ever 5 times what something just sold for weeks before hand.

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:Getting back to the question at hand, why did the shrink T1-4 sell so high? I think a good guess would be that at least TWO fairly well off Collectors that weren't comfortable in determining authentic shrink felt that Auction was there best bet to get an Authentic original Shrink T1-4. Or maybe it was just a pissing contest, who knows - this is all just speculation. For all we know, maybe both bidders never had any intention of paying and they were just farting around.


Looking at the auction history of both, there were actually 5 under bidders on Paul's auction that exceeded the winning bid from 3 weeks earlier. 4 of them all bid more than 3 times as much. The fifth bid $250 and was the 2nd place bidder on the $200 one.  In this case, this wasn't just two guys having a pissing contest(which does certainly happen).

Mister Yuk wrote in New Candidate: Silliest Auction Price of the Year:As far as my little story goes, I was following a conversation in the original eBay forums around 2000-ish. The Shaq part of the story was from, I believe, Yahoo News. The original forum is long gone, as is the Auction Listing for the Video Game. If the Shaq story is still around somewhere - I have no idea where and I'm not spending any more time on this than I already have - believe or disbelieve whatever you want, really that's fine - I'm very skeptical too.


I looked and was unable to find anything on it myself. Sounds more like an urban legend. Not sure it matters one way or another. My overall point is that this does not exclude the final price from being ridiculous. It's also not a great selling strategy to count on such action.


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