Rare 3rd Edition items?
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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:40 am 
 

I was pruning out my collection and getting rid of some really lame early 3rd edition stuff I bought years ago at discount, when it hit me: Are these items going to be the hard to find rarities of the future completist collector in 20 years?  I'm not talking any of the WOTC, Sword & Sorcery, Necromancer, Kenzer, Green Ronin,etc stuff.  I'm talking about the one-shot, made-some-bucks-then-folded, fly by night crap that came out right when 3rd edition did in low print runs, and disappeared.  Companies that perhaps released only one or two titles before folding.  

I mean, in the future are titles like "Assault on Darkspyre" going to be the sought after manna of the kids right now growing up with 3rd edition?  The print runs are low, and they are OOP never to be seen again.  Or will anyone care?  Truthfully most of these early products are gawd awful crap.   Then again, some of the early 1st edition stuff we look for is pretty terrible (Wee Warriors stuff?  Early Role Aids? Wilmark Dynasty?).  So, should we be salting away a copy of stuff like Nemoran's Vault, Spear of the Lohgin, or The Gryphon's Legacy (actually, the last is a real sleeper, probably the best one shot 3rd edition adventure I've ever read, written by Wolfgang Baur as the first adventure of a series by a company that apparantly went under soon afterwards...)?  Or should we just toss the lot and hope we aren't saying 20 years from now "Yep, I had a copy of that Akrasia Thief of Time, but who knew?"

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:28 am 
 

This is an interesting question — and a tough one to answer without a crystal ball. I come down on the "no" side, though, for three main reasons:

1. d20 is not "new" stuff: By which I mean that the classic mid- and late-70s D&D (and you're right, some of it was crap-tastic) was, in fact, a new thing. Gygax, Arneson, and other contributors created FRP (as most of us would define it). The original 3e/d20 products from 2000 have roughly 26 years of tradition behind them — they're not exactly groundbreaking material.

2. The nostalgia factor: Why, more than any other reason, is there an Acaeum? Nostalgia. [side note: I'm cool with those who would answer "research"; let's call it a tie]. With possibly some very rare exceptions, I can't envision there being a lot of nostalgia for the average d20 product.

3. The crap factor: You said it yourself — the vast majority of 3e releases have been without redeeming value. The following words all come to mind when I hear "d20" or "3e": unoriginal, uninspiring, conformist, derivative, unedited, and ... well ... lame.

That's just my 3 cents; YMMV. God knows I've been wrong before ...  :P

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:14 am 
 

One possibility is that one of these "fly-by-night" companies will actually linger around until some day everything changes. . . and they become larger and larger and more popular.  They once made several little known modules and as they grew and became more popular their older more "obscure" titles still were relatively worthless.  Perhaps someday, 20 years from now, WOTC sells out their rights to D&D and this "growing" company is around to purchase it.  

D&D 10th edition is now released by this new company, and while the younger generation buys it, the 30 something crowd remembers their own youthful playing days.  These obscure titles by the now wildly popular "new company" are remembered and the older (wealthier) crowd buys them with increasing frequency.  Maybe not like a Tsojconth, but maybe with the appeal of our current H1-4 series.

Or maybe an author (like this Wolfgang Baur) becomes famous in his own right - perhaps as an author or perhaps pioneering a new RPG company.  In any case, his old modules could garner collector interest based on his having written them.


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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:07 am 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:One possibility is that one of these "fly-by-night" companies will actually linger around until some day everything changes. . . and they become larger and larger and more popular.  They once made several little known modules and as they grew and became more popular their older more "obscure" titles still were relatively worthless.  Perhaps someday, 20 years from now, WOTC sells out their rights to D&D and this "growing" company is around to purchase it.  

D&D 10th edition is now released by this new company, and while the younger generation buys it, the 30 something crowd remembers their own youthful playing days.  These obscure titles by the now wildly popular "new company" are remembered and the older (wealthier) crowd buys them with increasing frequency.  Maybe not like a Tsojconth, but maybe with the appeal of our current H1-4 series.

Or maybe an author (like this Wolfgang Baur) becomes famous in his own right - perhaps as an author or perhaps pioneering a new RPG company.  In any case, his old modules could garner collector interest based on his having written them.


This is kind of along the lines of what I was thinking, only more along the "Gotta have everything" completist who is hunting down that obscure title from Eden Games or another defunct company as he waxes nostalgic about 3rd edition, the first edition HE ever played 20 years before.   You have to remember there is going to be an entire "gaming" generation out there that has no common reference points with anything 1st or 2nd edition, their starting point was WOTC 3rd edition rulebooks with the kewl characters who had studded and spiked armor, tats, facial hair and BAAAAAD ass weaponry.  They might find it intriguing to collect everything 3rd edition, much as you or I find it necessary to search for stuff like Midkemia products or independent one shots from the 80's or a complete run of Role Aids products or whatever obsession we pursue this year.

Then again, this is assuming in 20 years we aren't just all plugging into the vid-com for "live action virtual reality online" RPG gaming and no one could care a flip about old paper and dice games anyways...

But if we aren't will there be that now 35 year old guy who wants all the booklet style mini-adventures that were released almost simultaneously with 3rd edition?  Will he do as I've done on occasion (and don't lie, some of you out there have done this also!) and search through old gaming mags for titles and pictures of obscure gaming modules that were released in the early aughts?

Right now their are seven copies of Gryphon's Legacy being auctioned on ebay, ranging from a buck to ten bucks.  There 3 copies of Akrasia Thief of Time, etc.  Maybe there are just too many copies of some of this defunct stuff out there to matter.  Then again, what is commonplace now may be gone again some day, speculation is fun but I suppose know one really knows.  Personally, I think the 30th anniversary special edition books might bring in something.  

And here's an intriguing example, just a couple of years ago those mini-D&D books and box sets from that Italian company were everywhere; in another thread around here, we find the company is gone and some of the books are very, very hard to find.  How much would the completist pay for an entire set of these now? Maybe ten years from now?  We may be all regretting we didn't stash a few of these in a shoebox (I'm already regretting opening my Ruins of Undermountain mini-box and actually trying to use the thing...)

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:04 am 
 

Badmike wrote:I was pruning out my collection and getting rid of some really lame early 3rd edition stuff I bought years ago at discount, when it hit me: Are these items going to be the hard to find rarities of the future completist collector in 20 years?  I'm not talking any of the WOTC, Sword & Sorcery, Necromancer, Kenzer, Green Ronin,etc stuff.  I'm talking about the one-shot, made-some-bucks-then-folded, fly by night crap that came out right when 3rd edition did in low print runs, and disappeared.  Companies that perhaps released only one or two titles before folding.  

I'm sure in 20 years some of it will be valuable.  But there is no way to determine which items, and with the absolutely vast amount of 3e stuff out there, you're better off pitching it all, and hunting for the "good stuff" in 10/15/20 years.  It's just taking up valuable space at the moment.

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:48 am 
 

Do young people still play D&D in large numbers?  I was under the impression from people who go to cons that there are less and less that play D&D, instead they go for CCGs, video games and other pursuits.  
What I'm getting at is I just don't think there's a critical mass of young people today whose youth will have been defined by D&D as it was for most of us, and hence they won't care 20 years down the road for 3rd Ed. D&D they way we care and have nostalgia for OD&D and AD&D 1st Edition.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:04 am 
 

I think that all of you should start collecting all of the d20 and 3e stuff. It may just become the futures Fazzlewood, or Chainmail 1st ed.
That leaves more of the currently Older TSR 1e and 2e stuff for me to collect ...... :twisted:


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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:37 am 
 

dathon wrote:Do young people still play D&D in large numbers? I was under the impression from people who go to cons that there are less and less that play D&D, instead they go for CCGs, video games and other pursuits.


Maybe we should be stockpiling unopened boxes of Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment?

Hell, those games were part of what drew me back into D&D a few years ago.


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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:28 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:
Badmike wrote:I was pruning out my collection and getting rid of some really lame early 3rd edition stuff I bought years ago at discount, when it hit me: Are these items going to be the hard to find rarities of the future completist collector in 20 years?  I'm not talking any of the WOTC, Sword & Sorcery, Necromancer, Kenzer, Green Ronin,etc stuff.  I'm talking about the one-shot, made-some-bucks-then-folded, fly by night crap that came out right when 3rd edition did in low print runs, and disappeared.  Companies that perhaps released only one or two titles before folding.  

I'm sure in 20 years some of it will be valuable.  But there is no way to determine which items, and with the absolutely vast amount of 3e stuff out there, you're better off pitching it all, and hunting for the "good stuff" in 10/15/20 years.  It's just taking up valuable space at the moment.


Good point.  We will need something to do as we enter retirement age.  At age 60+ I'll be looking for something else to collect by then.  And my wife will seriously kill me when I announce that at our retirement party.

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:28 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Good point.  We will need something to do as we enter retirement age.  At age 60+ I'll be looking for something else to collect by then.  And my wife will seriously kill me when I announce that at our retirement party.

Mike B.


You are not fooling me. You are never going to retire.....  :roll:
of course that does not mean we can't have the party though.......... :)  :wink:


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:41 pm 
 

3e stuff is very tricky collection wise. After the OGL, a grip of people came out with "Jack's 1000000 Broken Feats" and more. So many of them sucked, and died.Unfortunately, it made 3e look bad because of themunchkins putting that crap out.

The Sword and Sorcery stuff was well liked, and well received, as were some of the others. however, none have become so liked or sought after to qualify as collectible.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:29 pm 
 

I am unsure, But I would say there is more of a chance that the chaeper stuff that is not  of good story line and fun would be worthless. Even in the future except to those who desire one of everything. The reason is that if it is not well liked and popular it will not be well known. If it is not well known now then I do not see the desire to be there for people wanting it other than those who want one of everything.

Now the better made items that are popular I think may hold their value.  My reasoning is this. G1-2-3 for example was not only weel made it was a BLAST to play.

Then well in my opinnion of a poor older made module would be UK1 Beyond the Crystal Cave.  It was at best in my opinnion mediocre.

Which one still today fetches higher prices. Even a NM UK1 will not usually fetch as much as an Excellent or even Good condition G1-2-3. That is my take anyhow.

As far as collecting goes in retirement I got that one figured out already. I am going to collect younger women of 35-45 yrs of age.  8O   So if you think you are going to get a hard time from your wife when you announce it to everyone, try being me.   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:52 pm 
 

Shingen wrote:3e stuff is very tricky collection wise. After the OGL, a grip of people came out with "Jack's 1000000 Broken Feats" and more. So many of them sucked, and died.Unfortunately, it made 3e look bad because of themunchkins putting that crap out.


Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. There were millions of self-published D&D manuals released between 1978 and the early 80's.

If you, like me, fall into the 35-45yo bracket, we look back at those modules/fanzines and remember with wistful nostalga when we used to sit in school and write our own stuff, and think maybe our own stuff was truly as bad as some of the stuff that was self-published.

Twenty-five years ago we wouldn't have considered buying some module some dude typed up on his dad's typewriter and photocopied for his local hobby shop to sell for him.

If only we'd have had the foresight to buy up a couple of dozen Daystar modules, or stopped at the fold-down table in the National Garden Centre and said, "ST1? I'll have a box of those."

The guys spending the money on rare 3E D&D items in 20years are at school at the moment. And they'll be buying those few remainig copies of Jack's 1000000 Broken Feats, because The Sunless Citadell will still be relatively commen.

I have a box of ST1's if anyone's interested. I tried planting a few of them but all I got was Snap Dragons and roses.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:23 pm 
 

I don't know about future collectibility, but one company that publishes great 3e stuff is Avalanche Press (http://www.avalanchepress.com). Their line of historical-based modules & supplements is simply outstanding.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:24 pm 
 

And the d20 business was so good to AP that they quit doing d20 books completely---must have run out of cover models :roll:


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:16 pm 
 

The OGL publishing niche must be brutal. It's a shame AP didn't find more success in their d20 department. I never did "get" the whole Heavy Metal cover theme for the books. I mean, I avoided the books because of those covers -- not that they aren't attractive in their own way, but I thought they meant the material inside would be juvenile.

Imagine my surprise, when I finally looked one over and found that the material was A+ quality, especially the Bennighof (sp?)-authored adventures.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:33 pm 
 

I believe I may have found a collectible 3rd edition product.

Dungeon Tiles: Set 1.

It's OOP, and I can't find it anywhere on the net for sale for less than $50. There are two Ebay that are nearing $30 with over a day or two before they end.

With 4e being even heavier push on minis, I can only imagine these will become more in demand. Also, the nature of the dungeon tiles is that people use them and punch them out when they do, so finding one unpunched and/or still in shrink will become harder and harder.

EDIT: I don't know if they increased the print runs on later sets or plan on reprinting these at a future date, or what the possible collection value of the other tiles sets could be. But I found it interesting none-the-less.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:42 pm 
 

I would assume that any surviving d20 publisher that continues with 4e will end up doing a re-release of whatever products they produced that were best for them. That means Necromancer will likely do a 4e version of Rappan Athuk, for example. From all the retailers I have spoken to, most of d20 stuff is worthless... so, I don't expect there to be many, if any, collectibles.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:51 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:I was pruning out my collection and getting rid of some really lame early 3rd edition stuff I bought years ago at discount, when it hit me: Are these items going to be the hard to find rarities of the future completist collector in 20 years?  I'm not talking any of the WOTC, Sword & Sorcery, Necromancer, Kenzer, Green Ronin,etc stuff.  I'm talking about the one-shot, made-some-bucks-then-folded, fly by night crap that came out right when 3rd edition did in low print runs, and disappeared.  Companies that perhaps released only one or two titles before folding.  

I mean, in the future are titles like "Assault on Darkspyre" going to be the sought after manna of the kids right now growing up with 3rd edition?  The print runs are low, and they are OOP never to be seen again.  Or will anyone care?  Truthfully most of these early products are gawd awful crap.   Then again, some of the early 1st edition stuff we look for is pretty terrible (Wee Warriors stuff?  Early Role Aids? Wilmark Dynasty?).  So, should we be salting away a copy of stuff like Nemoran's Vault, Spear of the Lohgin, or The Gryphon's Legacy (actually, the last is a real sleeper, probably the best one shot 3rd edition adventure I've ever read, written by Wolfgang Baur as the first adventure of a series by a company that apparantly went under soon afterwards...)?  Or should we just toss the lot and hope we aren't saying 20 years from now "Yep, I had a copy of that Akrasia Thief of Time, but who knew?"

Mike B.


you should definitely buy it all up mike. it could be worth millions.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:54 pm 
 

Troll. Ignore.

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