EGG / Stephen Marsh manuscript
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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:25 am 
 

Which other question?

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:02 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Which other question?

Sounds like we're dodging each other, here... ;)

Is the city in your tourney module named?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:16 am 
 

harami2000 wrote:Is the city in your tourney module named?


It is called Tarshish. I also have a sheet titled 'Last of the current volume of the Cupric Text' and begins mid sentance 'and there was a vision in the night...' I believe this was taken from earlier works and used as background. From what I've read, I think the City is deeply tied up in Steve vision of the planes and how they work.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:18 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:
harami2000 wrote:Is the city in your tourney module named?


It is called Tarshish.

*YAY*

Excuse me for a second; I've got to go berate Paul again...

  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:22 am 
 

Paul; why did you advertise the Mystic Rules, thus?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5943211467

"This is a single original typed sheet of Steve's Mystic class. It is one of three pages, the others are lost to time. This class introduces the concept of psionic disciplines which were used by TSR in their psionics section of Eldritch Wizardry. Gary Gygax had his own psionic class, the Divine which had mental attack and defense modes. Tim Kask edited the two and voila, you have the psionic system for D&D and later AD&D."


The hell the other pages are "lost to time"...

I'm almost certain you've just stripped out the third page from the back of the first installment of Steve's "Cupric Text" (for $ reasons) and left Mike with one page TOTALLY out of any context.

Scan of the second page... How does this compare, Mike? (The paper is white, not yellow, btw!)
The "This page continues until I get to the next for mystic rules" at the bottom of the page is a bit of a give away...

Image

*annoyed*

  

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:23 am 
 

harami2000 wrote:
mbassoc2003 wrote:
It is called Tarshish.

*YAY*

Excuse me for a second; I've got to go berate Paul again...

Why?

You don't appear in the list of users online, do you? You skulk. You sneak about :D like Gollum in LoTR.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:44 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Why?

You don't appear in the list of users online, do you? You skulk. You sneak about :D like Gollum in LoTR.

And you are a tad "hasty", my friend!

d.


*points above*

(I presume you spotted your PM, btw. will edit out this message and add in further comments, later - work calls...).

  

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:54 am 
 

My 'Background' sheet is practically the same as yours. It begins from the chapter heading Background, and the first two paragraphs are practically identical. Where yours reads 'In the flamings and the tearings which seaded the land, the city of qo5y4839ocl,d (presumably to be entered later) was torn from the land...', mine reads simply, 'In flamings and searings many a section of the city in which they stood wase slain. But some of these city sections passed beyond... End of Paragraph.
My text goes on the give background on Anixmander and the Verdigris Testament, but yours aludes to the percieved mechanics of how this all works, where mine does not.

I imagine the tourney city was the play testing refered to in your text, which I assume predates mine. I would say that in your text there may have been the possibility the 'The City' and 'Tarshish' were two different locales, but that they became one and the same during development of the module.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:59 am 
 

hasty...??

Yes, and doubly so, since you're now referring to material the board hasn't even seen, yet... ;)
Suspect you're very close to the mark in various places (and in previous comments, above).

(heh. now I can't edit out the previous message, either...)

Later,
David.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:35 pm 
 

Howdy David,


David your acrimony is becoming unpleasant. I will answer any questions you or others may have but I will not waste my time with someone who assails my character.

harami2000 wrote:Paul; why did you advertise the Mystic Rules, thus? ...
I'm almost certain you've just stripped out the third page from the back of the first installment of Steve's "Cupric Text" (for $ reasons) and left Mike with one page TOTALLY out of any context.


I did no such thing as you suggest. If I had found the entire document amongst the papers I would have sold it as such. I found only the one page and could not match it to any others in the collection. I asked Steve what the material was and he told me. I asked Steve if he knew where the rest of the original text to the Mystic class was and he told me lost to time.

I realized the importance of the document, partial though it was, and decided that as an artifact of the development of the D&D game that it was worthy of it's own auction. That's it, an honest attempt to offer something that would be of interest to the collecting community as a whole.

Your posts take the tone that I am engaged in some sort of nefarious chicanery. That is the furthest notion from truth. I brought this material to the collecting community as a collectable, that's it. Steve and I decided that whatever happened to the materials happened. He invested much of his time in it and has since moved on to other pursuits.

Remember, this stuff is still his intellectual property, regardless of whom may have the physical artifacts.


Futures bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:12 pm 
 

stormber wrote:Your posts take the tone that I am engaged in some sort of nefarious chicanery. That is the furthest notion from truth. I brought this material to the collecting community as a collectable, that's it. Steve and I decided that whatever happened to the materials happened. He invested much of his time in it and has since moved on to other pursuits.

My previous posts suggested that you had been careless with Steve's legacy, given your lack of research into how all the material meshed together.
You were the one who indicated that the collection had been broken apart, at least in part to maximise the dollar return...
(And also made a comment to the effect that you disliked people sharing copies of the material (regardless of reason?) as doing so "devalued" them).

Even if that one page of the Cupric Text relating to the Mystic class had somehow become separated, it should not have taken long to find it's proper place. The header and footer are both in Steve's "standard format" for that publication.
Looking back at the auction, it took me only a few seconds to realise where the sheet had come from, even given a low-res image; hence my interjection to Ian.
*
Yes, I am sure Steve is 100% correct that the rest has been "lost to time" (with regards his /original/ outline for the Mystic), but not in the context of the archive. Sorry, you gave no indication you were quoting Steve, in the auction description.

stormber wrote:Remember, this stuff is still his intellectual property, regardless of whom may have the physical artifacts.

With regards the Cupric Text material, Steve's cover note states "Unless otherwise noted all material herein may be used by anyone for any purpose".

Regardless, I would obviously prefer that Steve is fully credited even in non-commercial context and would prefer that he could help guide in the manner in which this is brought back together again.
However, the Mikes (from whom I've heard nothing) and Ian have the publishable material; and much of that will, no doubt, stand alone- even without the extra hints and directions in Steve's underlying developmental framework.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:24 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
stormber wrote:Remember, this stuff is still his intellectual property, regardless of whom may have the physical artifacts.

With regards the Cupric Text material, Steve's cover note states "Unless otherwise noted all material herein may be used by anyone for any purpose".


Paul, both your comments and Steve's own words seem to contradict each other.  So, rather then discussing on this forum could you please PM me Steve's contact details.  I would like to have a chat with Steve directly with regard to IP prior to persuing the development of the Manual further.

David, please note that even though I have been quiet I have still been listening (just very disappointed with the amount of noise on this forum recently).  As I stated awhile ago I am undertaking an assessment of the material prior to any decision to publish.  

You should go a bit easier on Paul.  I don't believe he intended any malace.  

Just to add some controversy ... after viewing the material I believe one of the biggest reasons for the manual not being published was NOT Gary leaving TSR but rather Gary's procrastination with regard to its publication.

All, to date the interest I have received on this forum with regard to releasing the Manual has been minimal (A big thanks to those who did say they wanted one). A greater show of hands (please) would help convice me that this is a viable venture.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:34 pm 
 

improvstone wrote:
harami2000 wrote:
With regards the Cupric Text material, Steve's cover note states "Unless otherwise noted all material herein may be used by anyone for any purpose".


Paul, both your comments and Steve's own words seem to contradict each other. So, rather then discussing on this forum could you please PM me Steve's contact details. I would like to have a chat with Steve directly with regard to IP prior to persuing the development of the Manual further.

David, please note that even though I have been quiet I have still been listening (just very disappointed with the amount of noise on this forum recently). As I stated awhile ago I am undertaking an assessment of the material prior to any decision to publish.

You should go a bit easier on Paul. I don't believe he intended any malace.

Just to add some controversy ... after viewing the material I believe one of the biggest reasons for the manual not being published was NOT Gary leaving TSR but rather Gary's procrastination with regard to its publication.

All, to date the interest I have received on this forum with regard to releasing the Manual has been minimal (A big thanks to those who did say they wanted one). A greater show of hands (please) would help convice me that this is a viable venture.


Well, Count me as one who would definitely be interested in it if it is in fact produced. I would also offer any possible help that may be needed in the project. I am not sure exactly what would be needed to be done or how I could help specifically, but the offer still stands even if it is simply just getting the word out about it.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:38 pm 
 

I would think most of us here would be up for buying a copy.  Though I wouldn't think it'd be a factor in whether it's published or not -- if it's going to be a professionally-made hardback manual cranked out on a commercial press, we're talking thousands of copies.  Maybe 10,000 as a minimum order.  So I'd think that it's a much bigger business decision than just a few dozen orders from The Acaeum.  :)

Now, if we're talking about a PDF release or something on that scope, that's a whole different story.

Foul

  

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:25 am 
 

I concur that most of us here will buy one, but whether that justifies the expenditure for a mass market print copy is debatable.  A PDF might be the wise initial route so a lot of money isn't sunk unprofitably.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:51 am 
 

At the very least, sell it as a pdf.  You'd probably make a bundle (hell, make a 1e version and an updated 3.5 version, and you'd make a killing since you could sell it twice).

  


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:22 am 
 

FoulFoot wrote:I would think most of us here would be up for buying a copy. Though I wouldn't think it'd be a factor in whether it's published or not -- if it's going to be a professionally-made hardback manual cranked out on a commercial press, we're talking thousands of copies. Maybe 10,000 as a minimum order. So I'd think that it's a much bigger business decision than just a few dozen orders from The Acaeum. :)

Now, if we're talking about a PDF release or something on that scope, that's a whole different story.


Based on what I've heard about the various mss., I don't believe that anyone's going to be printing thousands of copies unless they're being underwritten somehow:  products in the market just don't sell to that level of scale any longer.  

Tadashi and I are still more than willing to assist with the publication of the the planar materials, and have discussed them extensively at our last few meetings.


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Post Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:31 pm 
 

Paul,

I recall Steve answering questions about these manuscripts on another messageboard, but I'm unable to track the threads down.

There are editorial notes and corrections made to City of the Revenaunt, deletion of 'house rules', recommendations that 'passage comments be moved to the back of the module', and other errata.

They seem to be editorial amendments to bring the manuscript into line with TSR's publication criteria (of the time).

I was wondering if it were possible to confirm if that were the case (in which case, are the comments made by Gary?), or whether they were Steve's own editing notes (in which case some of the comments are odd as they are a critique of Steve's universe?).

These editorial corrections are not to be mistaken for the DM/playtest notes which also appear on the manuscript. These Steve has confirmed as his own.

I am trying to determine whether the manuscript was playtested and amended with notes (late '78 early '79 from discussion on another board with Steve), and then edited/reviewed by Gary (or another editor) for comment on meeting Dungeons & Dragons module publication criteria (possible during 1980?).

Any information you could elicit from Steve would be most welcome.


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