Opinions please---darkseraphim: What is the matter?
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:19 pm 
 

He has cancelled a bid I had on one of his items. WHY?

His reason is: "I can guarantee the bidder would not be satisfied with condition."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5935829764

Here is the reason for this ridiculous statement from him:

I had previously received an item from him that he had listed as being in VG (Moderate wear) condition. It was not. It was actually only in G-, at best (Moderate to heavy wear) (Using his very own grading scale, which is in EVERY one of his auctions).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5929979723

At what grade level should this item be rated using his scale????

The cover is VERY soiled and stained, with a couple of minor tears and the cover is beginning to tear as well at the spine.

The book is not in as good a condition as the picture shows in the Auction. I was not mad when I got the module, as I had only paid a few bucks ($6.50), but I did not think he deserved a positive feedback, nor did I think he deserved a negative. So I gave him a neutral with an explanation (Though I mistakenly stated in the explanation that the item was listed as being in X+ condition. Still the item is NOT VG Either..... So the neutral feedback stands.

Now sour apples, he won't allow me to buy any more of his items.....

I have purchased several of his items in the past with no problems, which is another reason I went with a neutral instead of negative. Most others would have gotten a negative. In fact, with that item I was also shipped a AC3 Dragon Tiles Module in good shape, for which I gave him positive feedback at the same time as the other feedback.

What do you folks think? Am I an ass (Wait don't answer that), or is he being childish???

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:34 pm 
 

Not an ass. Seems to me that lots of people are waaay to big on this feedback stuff around here. Is it really that important? A good motto is Screw me once and you dont get to twice, That goes for buyers and sellers. Should apply here to both.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:34 pm 
 

I can guarantee that darkseraphim isn't an ass.  He's one of the most respected resellers around.  I don't think you're an ass either, Aneoth, though I wish you had a smaller budget.  :)

He does have the right to cancel/block any bids he wants, though why he would, I don't know.  You're a very active collector, and presumably he'd want your business.

Regarding the grading, it's all very subjective.  What's the difference between "Moderate to heavy wear, tears likely" (G-) and "Moderate wear, possible minor tears" (VG)?  It's all semantics to some extent.

If you were unhappy with the purchase, you should have emailed him and tried to work it out amicably before leaving feedback.  Even "neutral" feedback is terribly damaging to one's reputation as a seller, and I'll be presumptous here and suggest that darkseraphim would rather have refunded your money or proposed some other sort of arrangment rather than receive that type of feedback.

Just my two coppers.

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:57 pm 
 

I don't know Aneoth - I gotta say that calling someone out on the Acaeum forums isn't the way to go.

I won't go into what darkseraphim's merits are - he doesn't need me to defend him.  By the same token, I have no bad feelings toward you either.

You are both active members of the Acaeum/collecting community - no need to start a thread with this negative spin.  Have you tried contacting darkseraphim directly?

Let me say  that when the_game_emporium was at his worst I received some pretty harsh (and eminiently hilarious  :D  ) correspondence from him that went back and forth a little bit  - I still have yet to publicy tell the whole Acaeum forums about it.

Just this evening, our-favorite-reseller emailed me asking why I blocked him as a bidder.  More hilarious dialogue!  I want to share, but I wouldn't even call him out publicly (even this is more than I thought I would mention!)

Keep it peaceful, keep it cool.

Consider editing out your title as well.

My two coppers and several more. . .


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:07 pm 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:
Consider editing out your title as well.


Thanks, I did....

  

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:14 pm 
 

Usually e-mails and phone calls can solve problems like that. Darkie's a reseller, but he does have a few good qualities...... I've never had any issues that I can recall with his stuff, though it is possible I've never gotten anything from him. Personally, I would bar someone from my auctions if they panned me without trying to resolve the issue. Most people could give a shit about feedback, but he makes a living via eBay, so it is very important to him.
I think Aneoth should take my place as the Forum whipping boy. I take him as my Padawan learner.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:34 pm 
 

Youmean the game emporium is still active and buying stuff? I thought he went poof months ago....


beyondthebreach wrote:I don't know Aneoth - I gotta say that calling someone out on the Acaeum forums isn't the way to go.

I won't go into what darkseraphim's merits are - he doesn't need me to defend him.  By the same token, I have no bad feelings toward you either.

You are both active members of the Acaeum/collecting community - no need to start a thread with this negative spin.  Have you tried contacting darkseraphim directly?

Let me say  that when the_game_emporium was at his worst I received some pretty harsh (and eminiently hilarious  :D  ) correspondence from him that went back and forth a little bit  - I still have yet to publicy tell the whole Acaeum forums about it.

Just this evening, our-favorite-reseller emailed me asking why I blocked him as a bidder.  More hilarious dialogue!  I want to share, but I wouldn't even call him out publicly (even this is more than I thought I would mention!)

Keep it peaceful, keep it cool.

Consider editing out your title as well.

My two coppers and several more. . .


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:47 pm 
 

Yeah, the emails have been sitting in my mailbox for many, many months now.  What do you think?  I don't think I would be hurting his reputation by this time, huh?  :D

Oh yeah, and "our-favorite-reseller" is someone else . . . still very active on the scene.

8)


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:13 pm 
 

By all means, post them. Even if he was active, we all know he is a snake, so do it.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:18 pm 
 

Yes and the new name too please...

Deadlord36 wrote:By all means, post them. Even if he was active, we all know he is a snake, so do it.


"What can I get for $10?"

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:22 pm 
 

beyondthebreach wrote:Yeah, the emails have been sitting in my mailbox for many, many months now.  What do you think?  I don't think I would be hurting his reputation by this time, huh?  :D

Oh yeah, and "our-favorite-reseller" is someone else . . . still very active on the scene.

8)

Guys, I'm pretty sure "our-favorite-reseller" refers to cougarrinard.  What do I win?  :D

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:50 pm 
 

Hi Aneoth,

I would have preferred to address this privately, but if you prefer to make it public here I can easily do so, and thereby simultaneously address your issue along with the curiosity of the other members.
;)

My issue is with the fact that you chose to leave neutral feedback without contacting me first -- effectively blindsiding me.  I am happy to fix problems for good customers, but if I don't know a problem exists, obviously I can't do anything about it.  In this case (perceived over-grading) I can assure you that the scan is of the item, and that I in no way attempted to deceive buyers as to the item's partial and worn condition.  I understand that you disagree with the grading, which is fine -- such scales are by their nature subjective and open to individual interpretation.

The proper way to address the issue, however, would have been to contact me to see if I would be willing to hear the minor grievance and deal with it.  Had I not (and I would have with a refund), a neutral or negative would then be valid.  I'm sure you noticed the "warning" screen at eBay where it suggests that you contact the seller before leaving feedback in this manner -- the reason is that the stain of neutral or negative feedback, deserved or not, lingers on my record for a year, and accumulation of such instances can cause a serious impact on reputation, and therefore sustainable income.

Because eBay has the system in place that encourages communication prior to leaving non-positive feedback, the situation in my feedback now creates the impression that there was willful negligence on my part -- that I mis-graded the item to deceive, and that I then refused to work out the issue with you.  Neither situation is the case -- but for new bidders coming into the fold, impressions are more important than facts -- few people are going to take the time to ask me about the issue, they'll simply assume that I knew about it and that it was handled badly.

In such cases of minor damage to reputation, where the buyer feels it was justified and I do not agree, how I proceed depends on how the buyer approached the situation.  If they communicated with me and I refused refund (for example the Italian customer who insisted on surface mail with no insurance, lost his items, and gave me negatives), I simply swallow them down and move on with another battle scar.  But in cases where I feel the feedback was left without trying to work out the issue, without communication or warning, I summarily ban the buyer from all future auctions.  The reasoning is that if they are willing to leave bad feedback when there's a problem, but not to make me aware of the problem, I'm defenseless -- I can't tell when something has gone wrong until I'm hit with the feedback.  It's the equivalent of being lambasted in public by someone you had a negotiation with, which they left feeling cheated, and you had no idea that they felt that way -- but the public spectacle remains.  You're being asked to justify the perceived error to other colleagues in the same moment that you're finding out about it yourself.  Some sellers find this situation acceptable; I personally do not.  I am perfectly within my rights to block neutral- or negative-prone buyers from bidding, just as you feel it is acceptable to leave the feedback without first seeking any recourse.

This leads into the further issue of the bid on the Jade Hare -- another of my items which has a noted mediocre condition.  Given the fact that you had proven your willingness to leave neutral feedback without communication, and that your previous issue had dealt with condition, I felt there was considerable risk that if you won the item and disagreed with the condition gradation, you would hit me again with poor feedback before I could fix the perceived problem.  So I made the call, and determined that it was not worth the risk.

You may decide that's unfair, but it's my decision to make, just as it's a bidder's decision to commit to or ignore an auction dependent on the potential of the seller to cause a negative transaction experience.  Buyers feel it is perfectly fine to select their sellers, but often forget that it is also perfectly fine for sellers to select their buyers.  The blade cuts both ways.  I personally feel the precedent of non-communication has been set by example, and am not willing to risk further mishaps I can't fix in time to please you … and so I choose not to take the risk at all.  It may be a minor inconvenience to you, but there is another nicer Jade Hare out there right now, and it really can't be said that you've been seriously deprived as a result of the action.  I'm simply protecting myself from your demonstrated practice which I disapprove of.

In the end, to reiterate, I had no intention of selling you an item with an "upped" condition just to make a buck -- a fair part of my reputation rests on buyers getting what they expect, so I would have been willing to work with you had I know you were displeased.  But you weren't willing to approach the situation as eBay suggested, so I regard you as a risk and I move on.  You may feel this is unjust -- to which I would counter that I feel it is unjust for you not only to leave me blindsided and ignorant of your disappointment, but also to air dirty laundry here for everyone else while ignoring me -- the one person who could have fixed the situation for you.  Why is it acceptable to "go behind my back," as it were, complaining about a problem that I would have been happy to address in private?  My opinion of you is somewhat decreased, as I am sure yours is of me, but I don't bear any ill will as a result.  I feel I am in the right -- and I assume you feel the same for yourself.  My decision does stand -- you finalized the sale and sealed the issue when you decided not to communicate and then came here to be offensive.  But I don't think this has to cause a permanent rift between us as Acaeum members or fellow RPG enthusiasts.  I, for one, am willing to leave the situation at that.  Lessons learned on both sides, and most likely, an agreement to disagree … which isn't too shabby, in retrospect.  I've been through much worse.
;)

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:02 pm 
 

So, if you guys were to work this out (via this thread or otherwise), what is your mutual recourse on the neutral feedback---can it be changed/altered if you were to reach an accord?

I haven't had to deal with this kind of issue myself (since I don't sell), so I'm curious if eBay has a mechanism to allow you to "make amends" so to speak??


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:03 pm 
 

Please reread the following:

"I have purchased several of his items in the past with no problems, which is another reason I went with a neutral instead of negative. Most others would have gotten a negative. In fact, with that item I was also shipped an AC3 Dragon Tiles Module in good shape, for which I gave him positive feedback at the same time as the other feedback."

Neutral feedback is NOT damning to your integrity, or your reputation, just as you stated yourself. It simply means that we disagreed with the condition of the module. So, what is the BIG FRIGGIN DEAL? If all that I wanted to do was to besmirch your good name and nothing else, then WHY would I have left Neutral, instead of NEGATIVE feedback, when Negative would have been far more hurtful, and then to beat all I then also left POSITVE feedback for the other item that was shipped in the exact same package?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Why did you then categorically state that you KNOW I would not approve of this new items condition and then proceed to reject my bid? Do you now profess to mind reading and telling the future as well as all your other talents? Where was YOUR E-Mail to me before you did that? Does that shoe only fit my foot?

What a CROK!

I seem to have hit a vital nerve in you with the NEUTRAL feedback. Neutral means we disagreed but parted ways with no fighting involved.

So, as to why I brought this discussion here?

I did so to ask for advice on how this should have been done. I have now seen from the above responses, that I should have contacted you before presenting the feedback. So now I am quite sure that I screwed up. I suspected it before, but I was unsure. Now I know it is so. So guess what?

My devious little plan worked. I learned something valuable from this Forum.
But only because I asked …….

WOW! Now that is simply amazing!

Am I a total idiot or what? ALL this time I thought that this forum was placed here for asking questions and for the advice from those with more experience. Advice?

Surely it is not so!! Advice, from a forum? Why would I go to a forum to ask for advice????

Oh how stupid you must all think I am, coming to the Acaeum Forum for advice on the subject of auctions and stuff!!!! Of all the stupid stunts in my life, this has got to rank right up there with….

well…. Darn in all, I can't seem to recall anything I have done that is this stupid… This takes the cake!

Is that not what this forum is for?? To ask and to learn?!?!

So, then if this is indeed a forum and is intended for asking for help, then why would you damn me for using this forum in the manner it was intended to be used?? Who made you the leader of the Acaeum forums list of things allowed to ask advice on?

GEEZ!! It was a NEUTRAL, not a negative. One would think I slit your cousin's dog's throat!!!!

Perhaps you should just brush my stained finger prints off of your shoulders and move on with your store and your life, less this annoying bastard who dared to challenge your usage of that prized grading system of yours makes you even angrier.

You chose to brush off a good buyer in me with this situation. What a shame, since you have lots of great stuff that has always interested me in the past, as in the case of the Jade Hare auction that you booted me out of just yesterday, when I was clearly the highest bidder. Tossed good money away you did….. Where is your capitalistic logic?

If I thought you were unreliable, then I would have completely avoided ALL of your auctions!! Instead, I planned to bid on more of your items. What a shame, as can be seen from my feedback, I have always paid on-time, fast and with no worries. But I am no big loss to you I am sure, as there are many other bidders in the E-Bay.

Apparently, you felt cheated and indignant at the Neutral feedback, you then retaliated in the only way that you felt you could, by your rejection of my bid.

So, where was YOUR E-Mail to me then?? Or does that shoe only fit my foot?

Let's call it a day and simply walk away from each other.

Best of luck to you and your store and god bless you and your family (Truly).

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:14 pm 
 

lol dark can be kind of a dick  :D no offense intended  8)
but dark does have a point before leaving anything but posive feedback you should contact the seller.  I've screwed up on conditions before, its very easy to forget to change the condition or to overlook something on a common item.(lets face it your not gonna flip every page of that b2)  

lol dark has me blocked as well because I, "borrowed" a couple of his auction details.... my bad  :twisted:

anyways I have a EX+ Jade hair someplace if you need one Aneoth....
I'd change fair market vaule :P  There is also another jade hair up on ebay right now, which having two on at the same time is sorta RARE in itself.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:16 pm 
 

hehe yup he still has me blocked :P


Hello swg_dealer! (Not you?) Enter your maximum bid and click Continue.
 
   


   
Transaction Blocked
Unfortunately, this seller has decided that you are not permitted to bid on their listings. You may contact the seller via the Ask Seller Questions feature if you want additional details.
Please note: You may not use other eBay accounts to bid on this seller's listings. Doing so may result in your indefinite suspension from eBay.



So your not alone  :roll:

  

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:16 pm 
 

Bidders perceive a neutral as more of a negative than a positive. I know I do. I'm usually VERY hesitant to leave anything but positive. especially for a reseller, since their sales depend on good feedback. Think of it this way. If a seller had 300 positives, 20 neutrals and 0 negs, would you just say "Oh OK, he's great!" or would you look for the neutrals?
eBay sucks, we probably all agree there, but since we are forced to use it, it usually pays to be attentive to detail. I don't think anyone is saying what you did was wrong, Annie, just that you might want to try to work things out more in the future.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:20 pm 
 

"....I have now seen from the above responses, that I should have contacted you before presenting the feedback. So now I am quite sure that I screwed up. I suspected it before, but I was unsure. Now I know it is so....."

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:28 pm 
 

I have 3 negatives, each one is bullshit.  lol 2 of them are from me buying stuff, some chick never sent me the book, she was later booted off ebay.  other guy wanted to charge me $20 to ship a 1 pound book to me that I won for $5 from canada va ground!  I told him to shove the book up his ass, think he has like 400+ negatives still running he overcharges on s/h on everything 5x as much.  Last was for a truck bed cover I sold for a friend(never sell stuff for friends!).  Damn thing was too large to ship by normal means, I told the guy the only way I could ship it to him was va truckline and he would have to pick it up at the nearest terminal.  Guy turned out to be a real freaken dick, he wanted it shiped only to his house which would have cost $50+ more and I wasn't going to pay it, then he wouldn't accept just his money back he wanted the cover shiped to his house and I had to pay the extra s/h lol Some people!  Anyways what I am saying is feedback doesn't mean shit, really.  People leave postive all the time even when they get shafted just so they won't get a neg feedback from the seller.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:54 am 
 

Wow, complete condecension.  OK.  I think I'll leave it with "Fuck you, piss off" and end the discussion.

  
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