Museum of Dungeons & Dragons
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 712, 3 ... 567
Author


** Banned **

Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
Last Visit: Jan 20, 2013

Post Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:32 pm 
 

We are creating the Museum of Dungeons & Dragons. Once it funds, and we are in the process of the final work to create the museum, we will need the Acaeum's help. Your knowledge of Original D&D, Basic D&D, and AD&D (1st Edition), along with TSR's history, is unmatched. We look forward to working with you, and just wanted to give you a "heads up" before hand.

Keep up the good work!


Jim and Debbie Hunton
Curators, Museum of Dungeons & Dragons

Email: [email protected]
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MuseumOfDnD
IndieGoGo: http://bit.ly/ZQIdu6
Attachment:
EntryMockupTN.jpg

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
  

User avatar

Verbose Collector

Posts: 1887
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Last Visit: Jan 23, 2022
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:48 am 
 

Wow, interesting idea - mooted many times before but just a dream within a dream!! :D  :D

That having been said, I would be interested in more details - For example I'm not sure if 150 grand sounds like a lot or not - looking at the Disneyland-esque mock-up I think maybe it's not enough (Though my knowledge of property values is a bit limited to say the least, especially as I don't even live on the correct continent).

As some plans are in place, would it be possible to expand on them a little bit? Presumably this is quite difficult as its early days and a site hasn't been decided on.

60 days to raise $150K - sounds tough without lots more info; could probably do with some of the industry "heavy hitters" on board as well.

And lastly - where are all the exhibits coming from, will they be from all over and purchased or loaned in/donated? (Or do you have all this stuff stacked up in the garage ready to go?!) (Or should Stratochamp be looking to up his security, and buy a big dog? :lol: )

As I say, interesting idea, but more details please.


You can never have too much of something you didn't need in the first place.

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3593
Joined: Dec 20, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 13, 2022
Location: Canada

Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:56 am 
 

So what do you have planned for this place. Displays? Wax statues of Gary and Dave?

Your money raise will fail with no details!

Also did you contact anybody here on the Acaeum for your "help"?  Pretty arrogant just to expect it  :?

Good luck anyway.


Games can get you through times of no money but money can not get you through times of no games!!

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7965
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 23, 2022
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:48 am 
 

I think your hearts are in the right place. However, I see nothing on your site or at the Indie project that gives me any idea what we would be donating to or buying into.  Frankly, at the very least, you are going to need at least one deep-pockets investor, and the complete blessing of all members of the Gygax family, just to get started.  Plus, there really needs to be more information out there, including mock ups, possible locations ready to be purchased, an entire business and marketing plan, and total support of any surviving TSR members.  I just don't see that level of planning in what I am looking at online, and wouldn't donate anything without this at the very least.  I see no buzz, or very little buzz, which is essential in these sorts of projects.

Drop this nonsense about setting the museum anywhere but Lake Geneva.  D&D is a niche hobby.  In a large city like Orlando a place like this will get lost in the shuffle and very little publicity, as well as virtually no tax dollars or help from a city council.  While Seattle and Indianapolis has their charms, Lake Geneva is the birthplace of the hobby.

You should be sitting on a huge collection, one ready for display.  You should already have some manuscripts or unique items, or deals with those that own such for display in your museum. No one is traveling anywhere to see copies of B2 and T1.  Again, at the very least, I would hope to see deals with guys like Stratochamp, Collector's Trove, Gail Gygax, Arneson's family, etc already announced to lend crediblity to the project.  

No one is willing to give you 150k for such a skimpy business plan. In reality, you ae probably going to have to already have purchased the property you wish to turn into the museum, and already have it opened and stocked with merchandise, before you are ready to accept donations for living/business expenses.  Which is why you are going to need an investor or two right off the bat to get you started.

Here's what I see as a proper timeline:  Move to Lake Geneva, look at properties, purchase something to store the collection you have now.  Get a professional artist to do mock ups and design on the future museum.  You are going to have to have an architect's work up, also. Talk up the museum at the city council meetings and explain how your contribution to the community will move in tourist dollars (city councils always love hearing about tourist dollars rolling in).  Maybe a local will then donate funds or materials to help with the museum. Travel to Gencon, Pax, Origins, Garycon, NTRPGcon, any other gaming convention with more than 100 people attending for a full year, man a booth describing your project with full blow ups of the mock ups.  Schmooze, schmooze, schmooze.  You are going to have to get the entire Gygax family on board, the Arneson family, influential members of the hobby with cachet (Frank, Tim, Rob, Jim, Monte, Peter Adkinson, etc), influential members of the hobby with projects or money they would like to promote by attaching it to your museum.  Companies like Frog God, Goodman Games, Paizo, Hasbro, etc should at least know who you are and what you are doing.  You are going to have to convince THEM that this is no bullshit and you are determined to open a museum.  You are going to have to have artists like Elmore, Caldwell, Otus, Fields, Dee, and more on board. You are going to have to find a handful of people in the hobby with deep pockets willing to let you have 10k a pop as seed money, and I don't think $200k is unreasonable a starting fee here.  You are going to have to have people with unique/rare items already on board for display of items. It would help if you could accumulate some donations of items.   You are going to have to entertain possible investors by having them come up and see what you already have as you regale them with tales of how cool your museum will look when it's properly housed and designed in a awesome structure.  The museum would have to be open on a provisional basis just to show people what you are talking about and to get them excited about donating money.  Word of mouth should have spread around the proper channels by now, buzz about the museum, bloggers and sites should be talking about it, etc.  

THEN you should starting looking at a kickstarter (not Indieagogo).  I'd ask for $500k, minimum, which could cover operating expenses for a couple of years as you are going to lose money until this thing gets off the ground and established. Maybe if you are on a strict budget, 250k, but you are also going to have to make a few purchases in those first years to get people in the door (stuff from the Collector's Trove or uber-collectors).

I have to stress that without strong, strong ties to certain members of the community, this will never succeed.  If you haven't met up with Luke Gygax or the Gygax family, Peter Adkinson, Frank Mentzer, Monte Cook, Bill Webb, Stratochamp, Collector's Trove, and a few others, you are already just pissing in the wind.  Just my opinion.

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 262
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Last Visit: Jan 23, 2022

Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:05 am 
 

Seems like an interesting idea, but I dont think it will ever be profitable or sustainable.  The market just isnt there.  What would work I think is maybe an exhibit at the Smithsonian.  Maybe seasonal.  I just cant envision there being enough material that the average joe would want to see or recognize the significance of that would require an entire building to house and display.  A single exhibit, in a blip of other Americana, sure.  Not to try to minimize the hobby, but as into as I am, even if I happened to be in the same state, I'd probably not opt to take my family or go it alone.  Again though, if we were wandering through the Smithsonian, I'd stop and spend a couple extra minutes on that and maybe share some stupid story from my childhood with my kids.

I don't know what the criteria, process, or anything else is for getting something into the Smithsonian, but D&D might be a good candidate, given its overall impact on culture and hobby for the last 30 years.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7965
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 23, 2022
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:25 am 
 

stylean wrote:Seems like an interesting idea, but I dont think it will ever be profitable or sustainable.  The market just isnt there.  What would work I think is maybe an exhibit at the Smithsonian.  Maybe seasonal.  I just cant envision there being enough material that the average joe would want to see or recognize the significance of that would require an entire building to house and display.  A single exhibit, in a blip of other Americana, sure.  Not to try to minimize the hobby, but as into as I am, even if I happened to be in the same state, I'd probably not opt to take my family or go it alone.  Again though, if we were wandering through the Smithsonian, I'd stop and spend a couple extra minutes on that and maybe share some stupid story from my childhood with my kids.

I don't know what the criteria, process, or anything else is for getting something into the Smithsonian, but D&D might be a good candidate, given its overall impact on culture and hobby for the last 30 years.


The problem with the Smithsonian is that at any one time 80% of their collection is in storage. The fandom of D&D is such they shouldnt have to wait once every decade to get a bone thrown to them by the Smithsonian.  
This is why the museum needs tobe in Lake Geneva, where there are already reasons for fans to visit. Don't be thrown by the word "museum". A museum can be any building dedicated to a display.  Ive been in museums as big as my house. D&D deserves its own museum, it just needs a better game plan.

Mike B


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

 WWW  

User avatar

Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 611
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Last Visit: Jan 21, 2022
Location: Evergreen, CO

Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:00 pm 
 

The biggest question, which has more or less been asked above is:  "What do you have to display?"  Nothing on the indiegogo site indicated that you have a collection worthy of a museum ready to display, and your movie had nothing more notable than a White Box.

  

User avatar

Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 229
Joined: Jun 08, 2007
Last Visit: Jan 21, 2022
Location: San Diego, CA

Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:07 pm 
 

The Strong Museum (the National Museum of Play) in Rochester already has some fantastic material, including the papers of Sid Sackson, and I'm aware of at least one major gaming estate that has been willed to them. They are very interested in expanding into more RPG history, and have the venue and budget to do so.

From my dealings with the Smithsonian, they do have some interesting holdings and a few curators following gaming in particular, but it certainly isn't a focus or emphasis. To see some early Jack Scruby pieces, I visited a Smithsonian annex in Maryland - only to discover that about half of the relevant items listed in their catalog had gone missing in a move years ago. With a collection so vast, errors like this are inevitable. Would hate to see any unique D&D items suffer a similar fate.


Author of Playing at the World and The Elusive Shift, co-author of D&D Art & Arcana and Heroes's Feast

 WWW  


Long-Winded Collector

Posts: 3519
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Last Visit: Jan 23, 2022
Location: Wandering aimlessly on the 8th level down...

Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:54 pm 
 

I'll be a damp squid, because it's another money spinning attempt but looking to the Acaeum members, much like the series of books you punted out a couple if years ago.

Apart from your own ventures, there's never a contribution here from you.


Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2736
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:29 pm 
 

Seems like a lot of paltry benefits for the amount to be donated. "One free entry." Wow. No thanks.

Also, good luck on that time machine that allows people to re-attend the 2012 GenCon.


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

  


** Banned **

Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
Last Visit: Jan 20, 2013

Post Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:00 am 
 

If you had your way, you would have us wait. We did. We waited while parts of Gary's collection went up for sale. We waited while Dave's collection went up for sale. People said, "This has to be preserved," but no one came forward to do anything about it.

No one has stepped up, not the Acaeum, not a private person, no one. Then Wizards opened the TSR archives and played with the toys and costumes. Again, no one did anything to preserve these items.

Someone needs to do something NOW, so we are. And all the Acaeum seems to want to do is criticize, not help. Why is that?

B2 may not mean anything to you now, but more and more copies of ALL of the items are being destroyed. EVERYTHING needs to be preserved, or 50 years from now, there won't be ANYTHING left.

Step up, or step down off your soap box.

We did not come to the Acaeum to ask for money, we asked for your help with knowledge once the museum is open. If you have any passion or love for D&D, help with this project, don't just sit and complain.

If you would like to contact us directly, our personal email is [email protected]


Jim and Debbie Hunton
Curators, Museum of Dungeons & Dragons

Email: [email protected]
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/MuseumOfDnD
IndieGoGo: http://bit.ly/ZQIdu6
Blog:  http://museumofdnd.blog.com/
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal. " - Albert Pike


P.S. We do have contact with many of the people you all have mentioned. If you want more info, contact us directly.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 7965
Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 23, 2022
Location: DFW TX

Post Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:29 pm 
 

I don't know if this is addressed completely to me but I'll respond:

dhunton wrote:If you had your way, you would have us wait. We did. We waited while parts of Gary's collection went up for sale. We waited while Dave's collection went up for sale. People said, "This has to be preserved," but no one came forward to do anything about it.


I think you would be surprised at what is being preserved behind the scenes, so to speak. Efforts continue on a lot of fronts to get much of this stuff up in electronic form so it will be available to anyone who wants to see or research it.  I know even Doug and the NTRPG con is doing it's part there (reprinting the Wee Warriors catalog in partnership with Pete Kerestan), as are people like Black Blade (who I believe will eventually be coming out with a dvd of some of Rob Kuntz's notes).  I am also encouraged that a lot of the unique Collector's Trove items are going into the collections of long time collectors.  

Besides, what are you waiting for?  No one said you couldn't purchase these items.  Owning a "museum" won't give you any inside track to owning this stuff.  Cold, hard cash talks.  

No one has stepped up, not the Acaeum, not a private person, no one. Then Wizards opened the TSR archives and played with the toys and costumes. Again, no one did anything to preserve these items.


I can't speak for WOTC because half the stuff they do is batshit insane.  But you are wrong when you say no one is stepping up to preserve the history of D&D. If you were indeed part of the community, you would know the names of these people, and what they contribute.

Someone needs to do something NOW, so we are. And all the Acaeum seems to want to do is criticize, not help. Why is that?


Because most people on the Acaeum are organized and methodical and plan ahead and don't like seat of the pants stuff.  Believe me the members here will rally around a good idea.

B2 may not mean anything to you now, but more and more copies of ALL of the items are being destroyed. EVERYTHING needs to be preserved, or 50 years from now, there won't be ANYTHING left.


Everything doesn't need to be preserved, stuff isn't being willy-nilly destroyed. There are plenty of B2s, and the fact you think in 50 years there won't be anything left is alarmist twaddle.  

Step up, or step down off your soap box.


If that means investing in a half ass pipe dream, sorry.  Otherwise, I will do my part to preserve D&D's heritage, but wait until a better game plan comes along.

We did not come to the Acaeum to ask for money, we asked for your help with knowledge once the museum is open. If you have any passion or love for D&D, help with this project, don't just sit and complain.


I'll wait for a better, more organized, more realistic and detailed  project. This is nothing against what you are doing, I wish you luck, but it appears key pieces are not yet in place for a successful project.


P.S. We do have contact with many of the people you all have mentioned. If you want more info, contact us directly.


"Contact" is vague.  I'd be more interested if you had solid backing and support, and I'm puzzled why you wouldn't stress such contact, as it can only help your cause.

Do either you or your wife have any experience running a museum, working at a museum, fund raising, accounting, working with a charity, running a business full time?  Don't you think a architect or artist should have already drawn up plans for the museum so you will have something to show investors?  Do you have at least one deep pocket investor lined up? Have you planned to move to Lake Geneva?  I'd want to know the answers to all these questions if I was asked to invest in such a project.

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com


Last edited by Badmike on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 WWW  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2572
Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Last Visit: Jan 18, 2022
Location: Seattle, WA

Post Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:41 pm 
 

If your previous works had inspired more interest, you'd see more support now.  We thought they were derivative, so there isn't much faith in you this time.


Areas of interest/knowledge: Harn, WFRP, Ars Magica, anything BRP based such as CoC, Runequest, Pendragon and all their related games

  


Long-Winded Collector

Posts: 3519
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Last Visit: Jan 23, 2022
Location: Wandering aimlessly on the 8th level down...

Post Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:51 pm 
 

Summed up very well in the last two posts.

And as is your normal reply, you get on the attack when questions are raised or criticism given.

How on earth can you question the Acaeum members love of D&D?? Stating to pay up or shut up is a ridiculous.

Your credibility in my eyes was nearing zero before this, now you've taken it to a new level. Congratulations.


Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector

Posts: 3155
Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 05, 2016
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:10 pm 
 

Just a quick 02c, in passing.
dhunton wrote:We waited while Dave's collection went up for sale. People said, "This has to be preserved," but no one came forward to do anything about it.

Dave himself contacted a few people here asking how to go about passing things on but nothing every came of that. I trust you'll agree that there's a limit to the number of times it is polite to ask a dying man about such material matters?
When the lock-up "finally came to light", the individual who made the discovery was /immediately/ contacted with an eye to historical preservation but they chose to ignore those messages, presumably for $$$ reasons.

Appearing to blame people here for not having more money in their back pocket for a single purchase than your entire project budget is probably a bit hurtful to some of those who have tried (individually or collaboratively, to a degree) within their limited means.

dhunton wrote:Someone needs to do something NOW, so we are. And all the Acaeum seems to want to do is criticize, not help. Why is that?

You'll find plenty negative attitudes elsewhere, too: one of the best known RPG bloggers has been more than keen to shoot down anyone who's trying to stretch their neck out to understand and preserve gaming history purely because they are private individuals.

Albeit I'd wholeheartedly agree that the level of cooperation in general could be better (and it's never going to be possible to get "everyone" working together), the current level of research, preservation and interest would almost certainly be lower without the active involvement of members here.

Best wishes; and for the project,
David.


"7.3 ORGANIZING THE PARTY: Always have a keg, even if it's BYOB...
7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

  

User avatar

Sage Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2655
Joined: Sep 25, 2007
Last Visit: Sep 06, 2021
Location: Southwest

Post Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:45 pm 
 

I have to echo the comments made previously. I realize that you don't like/expect the criticism, but seriously...if you pitch any business plan, your potential investors are going to hammer you with an inordinate amount of questions -- whether or not you feel it's necessary -- and definitely they will be much more difficult if you think the ones posted above are too tough.

There's far too many details to list out here that you really need to think through on this business/non-profit (?), but just so you're aware: the amount of funds you're looking for is a giant red flag to any serious investor that this is either amateur-hour or some con/scam. And that is one of MANY red flags you put up on the Indie site. It's a very simple question to put forth to the Gygax family as well as to Steve Jackson, whether you even bothered to get written permission to use a photo of them for your use in obtaining funds for your "venture".

But honestly, don't take my word for it and anyone else's on this forum on what's necessary to create your business. Definitely do yourself the biggest favor in the world and go down to your local Small Business Administration office and make an appointment to talk to someone about what they require in an application for a business loan and what you need to think about before starting a business. You can even pitch them the same information as what you posted here about seeing books and modules destroyed first-hand and see if they feel that's justification enough on a business loan application. Then make an appointment to talk to an attorney about your business plan. You should also go to your local library or Amazon, and check out/buy one of any multitude of starting-your-own-business books. You'll see that you need to spend many more months thinking this through to decide whether it's even viable.

  

User avatar

Prolific Collector

Posts: 178
Joined: Mar 22, 2011
Last Visit: Mar 29, 2021
Location: Steeler Country

Post Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:39 pm 
 

dhunton wrote:B2 may not mean anything to you now, but more and more copies of ALL of the items are being destroyed. EVERYTHING needs to be preserved, or 50 years from now, there won't be ANYTHING left.


I have like 15 copies of X1, I'd be willing to donate.

Disco


Image

  


Long-Winded Collector

Posts: 3519
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Last Visit: Jan 23, 2022
Location: Wandering aimlessly on the 8th level down...

Post Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:47 pm 
 

Just a thought. What are the plans for the future?

In years to come, when you are gaming with EGG, who looks after the museum and the contents, who 'owns' it?
Would it then sold off and profits enjoyed??
What's to stop you selling it in 10 years if you choose?

I'll be honest, your history of making a buck off the back of others speaks volumes after all.


Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

  
Next
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 712, 3 ... 567