Monster Manual MM 1st print artwork differences
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:23 am 
 

okay, so building upon Zenopus' thread from six years back ...
https://www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic. ... c=1#p65090
and recently
Zenopus wrote:There's a similar type of change in the Monster Manual, where an early version of one of the demons by DCS is replaced later by a better version by the same artist.


These are the following monster illustrations I've found that were changed by at least the 3rd print, including the Type III Demon (Glabrezu) that was mentioned previously. I need to hunt down my 2nd print to see if they were updated in that book. (The scans of the updated illustrations are from a 5th print btw). I'll do this in three posts since the uploader maxes out at three images.

Here is the chimera from the 1st print
Notice the lion's mane, the shading, and the missing bat wings, among other things.
Attachment:
MM1e_chimera_1stPrint.jpg


chimera in the 5th print
Attachment:
MM1e_chimera_5thPrint.jpg

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Last edited by misterspock on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:25 am 
 

Here is the Type III Demon from the 1st print
Attachment:
MM1e_DemonTypeIII_1stPrint.jpg


and from the 5th print
Attachment:
MM1e_DemonTypeIII_5thPrint.jpg

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:27 am 
 

and here is the Nightmare from the 1st print
notice the boney leg! :)
Attachment:
MM1e_Nightmare_1stPrint.jpg


and here is the 5th print
Attachment:
MM1e_Nightmare_5thPrint.jpg

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:16 am 
 

who said there was nothing left to find..

Brette:)


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:20 am 
 

2nd print has the revised art for the Type III demon, but while the damage line is now changed to 2-12/2-12/1-3/1-3/2-5, the parenthetical 'Glabrezu' is not yet present.

The Nightmare and Chimera have the revised art.


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:45 am 
 

Fascinating! I love this kind of trivia. Hard for that 1st print Chimera to fly 18"/round without wings.  :wink:

Here's some info on the MM art changes from Paul Stormberg, from this DF thread:
Dave (DCSIII) told me he didn't like some of the creatures he drew (Type III Demon, Chimera, Dinosaurs, and some others) as they had to be hastily done. DCS was a fast artist but it made his quality suffer. The Monster Manual was supposed to be done by Dave Trampier but he worked slowly and often quit and went home or to the local bar to blow off steam regardless of deadlines. Not so for DCS. He labored long into the night to get things done and sacrificed quality for speed when ordered to do so. Tramp was different, he was the golden boy for Gary and Gary did not push him on deadlines. Instead Dave was asked to pick up the slack.

When Dave got the Monster Manual blue lines from the printer he saw "this huge hole" in the document. There were no dinosaur illustrations, at all, just many blank pages. So that night Dave did all of the dinosaur drawings. He was supposed to be working on other things but crammed and speed drew things to pick up the slack. So a few pictures that had been hastily drawn by DCS, and that always bugged Dave were redrawn by him for later editions of the MM. It is the only book where he does this because it was never meant to be his project and the hastily drawn stuff bugged him so he just had to fix some things.

In the end, DCS was selected to be the Art Director for his work ethic and he slowly moved away from having time to create art. Ultimately he directed cartography at the company which you begin to see in fantastic maps like those in I6 Ravenloft.


Here's something that's often overlooked - the Acaeum "Monster Manual Errata" page lists the artwork added to the later MM prints:

http://www.acaeum.com/library/errata_mm.html

I also remember seeing a post showing a change in the size of the Hydra illustration in one of the MM printings. I can't find the thread now though. There are some references to this change in other threads:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8892&p=141949
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8892


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:21 pm 
 

Zenopus wrote:
Dave (DCSIII) told me he didn't like some of the creatures he drew (Type III Demon, Chimera, Dinosaurs, and some others) as they had to be hastily done. DCS was a fast artist but it made his quality suffer. The Monster Manual was supposed to be done by Dave Trampier but he worked slowly and often quit and went home or to the local bar to blow off steam regardless of deadlines. Not so for DCS. He labored long into the night to get things done and sacrificed quality for speed when ordered to do so. Tramp was different, he was the golden boy for Gary and Gary did not push him on deadlines. Instead Dave was asked to pick up the slack.

When Dave got the Monster Manual blue lines from the printer he saw "this huge hole" in the document. There were no dinosaur illustrations, at all, just many blank pages. So that night Dave did all of the dinosaur drawings. He was supposed to be working on other things but crammed and speed drew things to pick up the slack. So a few pictures that had been hastily drawn by DCS, and that always bugged Dave were redrawn by him for later editions of the MM. It is the only book where he does this because it was never meant to be his project and the hastily drawn stuff bugged him so he just had to fix some things.

In the end, DCS was selected to be the Art Director for his work ethic and he slowly moved away from having time to create art. Ultimately he directed cartography at the company which you begin to see in fantastic maps like those in I6 Ravenloft.


I always wondered why those Dinos didn't look as detailed as so many of his other illustrations.

I also remember seeing a post showing a change in the size of the Hydra illustration in one of the MM printings. I can't find the thread now though. There are some references to this change in other threads:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8892&p=141949
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8892


I didn't notice anything different about the hydra. It seems to be the same, other than the illustration is a little bit larger. I don't know why it was reduced slightly in later prints.

btw, in the 1st print that I used to take those scans from, whoever had originally owned the book glued that MM errata page to the front fly leaf!

  

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Post Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:38 pm 
 

misterspock wrote:I didn't notice anything different about the hydra. It seems to be the same, other than the illustration is a little bit larger. I don't know why it was reduced slightly in later prints.

My guess (and maybe someone with a very loose spine copy can confirm) is that the page with the giant strength change and that of the hydra were on the same flat, and for some reason the illus of the hydra was replaced for convenience or it had gotten messed up somehow in the process.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:58 pm 
 

Good finds :)

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:30 am 
 

Here's yet another, earlier version of the Chimera by DCS, from the Blackmoor Supplement:

Image

(thanks to paleologos for pointing this out)


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:40 am 
 

That's cool. I see his initials underneath the hind foot of the chimera. Maybe this was one of those illustrations that he had to blaze through and wound up mostly copying what he had done before (with some minor changes), then put the border around, and called it a day.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:07 am 
 

Not that this is any kind of major thing, but here's something else I ran across, this time in the French 1e MM from 1987. (I don't know how many printings there were of this book or which printing I have).

Attachment:
AD+D MM 1e_2009 French_EasleyCover.jpg


It has a couple of illustrations of Dave Sutherland's which show -- what looks like -- the original and revised borders he made on them. You can see a little bit more of the original red dragon illustration in particular, and only just a small portion of Bahamut's horn that was cropped. I'm still getting used to the attachment upload thing, but if you click on the picture it enlarges it. Maybe it resizes the images on this page of the thread.

Attachment:
AD+D MM 1e_2009 French_DragonBahamut+Red.jpg

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:18 pm 
 

beasterbrook wrote:who said there was nothing left to find..

Brette:)


Indeed!  So much for collecting the stuff and then just letting it sit on the shelf!


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