Time for a Huddle
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:01 pm 
 

I'm relatively the new guy around here so I may sound like a complete idiot, but I'm puzzled about the values of the rarest modules. For example; I've been seriously collecting these gems for about a year now and I've never seen a Fazzlewood. I've heard there are only 5 known copies, yet a Tsoj's which I've seen 3 times on eBay plus a few private offers is more valuable? ST1's from the mid-80's have been up a few times as well and command huge money, but a first print Palace of the Vampyre Queen which has far more significance being the first module made is also less valued? And what about all the research Frank did on proving the Black-folder is the first print, was it ever confirmed? And if so wouldn't this sky rocket the value of this thought 2nd print? I could go on with a few more, and I'm sure many of the gang has had similar thoughts on this subject. So I'll finish by saying I'm a collector not a reseller so I'm not trying to inflate or undervalue prices of some of these items I have or would like to have. I'm just trying to understand the guidelines or how to read between them.

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Mike

Also could someone post a link to Frank's (Deadlord36) research on the Black-Folder POTVQ. I've been digging around his almost 1000 posts, and have lost my mind trying to find it.  :roll:

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:55 pm 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:I'm relatively the new guy around here so I may sound like a complete idiot, but I'm puzzled about the values of the rarest modules. For example; I've been seriously collecting these gems for about a year now and I've never seen a Fazzlewood. I've heard there are only 5 known copies, yet a Tsoj's which I've seen 3 times on eBay plus a few private offers is more valuable? ST1's from the mid-80's have been up a few times as well and command huge money, but a first print Palace of the Vampyre Queen which has far more significance being the first module made is also less valued? And what about all the research Frank did on proving the Black-folder is the first print, was it ever confirmed? And if so wouldn't this sky rocket the value of this thought 2nd print? I could go on with a few more, and I'm sure many of the gang has had similar thoughts on this subject. So I'll finish by saying I'm a collector not a reseller so I'm not trying to inflate or undervalue prices of some of these items I have or would like to have. I'm just trying to understand the guidelines or how to read between them.

Opinions Greatly Valued,
Mike

Also could someone post a link to Frank's (Deadlord36) research on the Black-Folder POTVQ. I've been digging around his almost 1000 posts, and have lost my mind trying to find it.  :roll:


Good questions all around.  This stuff is all rather subjective when you get to the rares, of course, and condition becomes key.  Based on my paltry six-month experience with eBay, it would seem that Tsojconth's are coming out of the woodwork with more frequency than the others, but it's probably too short a timeline to call that a trend.  I haven't seen a Tamoachan on auction at all, and only one Inverness.  2 ST1s - both of which went for a ton of money.  PoVQ I can't really comment upon, I think I noticed 1 or 2 on auction, I don't remember the printings.  More vigilant eyes than mine may have seen more.

The Acaeum numbers are excellent and steady historical gauges of what something is worth -- but many people are guilty of adhering to them far too strictly.  Their value to collectors is that they tend not to change rapidly.  I'd guess that Fazzlewood is probably worth more than what's listed -- the last listed sale was in 2002, if I'm reading them correctly.  You'd probably need a more recent known sale or two to bump that number up.  You can only place valuations on stuff that's switching hands.  My completely out-of-the-air guess if one were to go on auction today: $1000 to $1200 USD (assuming mint).

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:50 pm 
 

Keep in mind that Fazzlewood didn't lead to much: O1 The Gem and the Staff.  And it's verbatim to the module.  Plus the name "Fazzlewood" sounds ridiculous.  
Tsojconth, Inverness and Tamoachan all lead to iconic AD&D adventures that would make most gamers' most memorable modules list.  ST1 is valuable because it actually looks like a lost TSR module from the old days, and it seems to be extremely rare.  Plus it's UK-only which gives it added cachet.   And it's the most difficult of all of them to forge.  
In essence, you're arguing logic in a pastime, collecting, that is mostly predicated on emotion and nostalgia.   :D

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:01 pm 
 

dathon wrote:

Keep in mind that Fazzlewood didn't lead to much: O1 The Gem and the Staff. And it's verbatim to the module.


True, but if you're trying to collect both the Metro Detroit Gamers modules which I'm sure many here would love to have. The Fazzle far outweighs the Tosj if indeed only 5 copies exist.

Plus the name "Fazzlewood" sounds ridiculous.


Mean to the Fazzlewood.  :cry:

Tsojconth, Inverness and Tamoachan all lead to iconic AD&D adventures that would make most gamers' most memorable modules list.


I can't agree more especially S4, oh……what memories. :)

ST1 is valuable because it actually looks like a lost TSR module from the old days, and it seems to be extremely rare. Plus it's UK-only which gives it added cachet. And it's the most difficult of all of them to forge.


I Know, I know, it's just that I can't see it. This module is just a fluke, (dodges dice, 2nd+ printings of the PHB, lightest member of the forum). It is rare, but why is it listed as the most valuable module? You'd think something like the first module made would hold this title if the known copies where in line. I guess if I was one of the UK crew I'd feel a little more nostalgic towards it, but for myself I'd have to have all the other 9 $500+ modules before I'd even consider it. And to tell the truth I'd settle for a low grade copy just for completeness if I could find one at a good price.  

In essence, you're arguing logic in a pastime, collecting, that is mostly predicated on emotion and nostalgia.


I completely agree. I fall victim to this as I'm sure many here do. The, I've got to have it, and I'm not going to let it slip through my hand's again attitude. This can drive prices through the roof especially if all the heavy-duty items start to fall into vast hands of collectors with the financial means to basically never have to sell them. Just think if there where just 5 of these individuals and they had the Fazzle's that's it. And then years latter if by chance one does come up. Who Knows? It all depends on how many collectors have built up behind them, there finical means (most likely good), and that "emotion and nostalgia" (most likely better).

The whole thing is I'm just trying to put facts to collecting finical decisions. If I know module A is rarer than module B, and I want them both then the funds are on the rarer. And in the case of the Fazzle for example in such limited amounts you just have to go for it. If you don't you can almost bet someone else will.

JMO Invincible 8)

  

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:40 am 
 

I will always maintain that Fazzle is the rarest, and should therefore be worth the most. Look at the poll. 4 verified copies, 1 possible. How many St1's have we seen? Malcolm had 4 just by himself.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:28 am 
 

Rareness simply does not always equal value.  The value of an item is a tricky thing and ultimately depends on how many people want an item and how much they are willing to pay for it.  Granted, that is an oversimplification, but it is applicable to any number of things in this world.

To keep it in only in the Dungeons & Dragons arena - take a just about any 2nd edition module.  I don't know what the print runs are, but there must be far more S1's out there than copies of The Murky Deep - which is more valuable?

Or move the subject back to very rare items.  As you yourself (invincibleoverlord) are someone who has spent some large amounts of cash on various items, you can answer this yourself.  If there was a Near Mint mono C2, Lost Tamoachan, Tsojconth or Fazzlewood each for $800 and you could only have one - which would you choose?  Let's say you have the $800.00 to spend, but after you do you might never get that much cash available again. . . or it might be a year or two before you could save that much for an investment.  I'd go for the Tsojconth - as Dathon pointed out, it is a classic and well-loved module (personally, it's my favorite).  Then probably I'd go for the C2, then Tamoachan and then. . . well I'd still skip Fazzlewood.  I'd rather have Palace of the Vampire Queen. . . (after all, don't all fantasy geeks dream about being seduced by a Vampire Queen?  :D  )

To compare it to comics (as I often do), there are many comics more rare than early Amazing Spider-man.  Let's forget about ASM #1 - even #30 will sell for hundreds of dollars in high grade.  How about a Kid Colt western comics from the early 50's?  There is far less chance to come across one, yet you're only going to get $20-$40 for high grade.  Who wants it?  Superheroes are the name of the game.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:23 am 
 

Hi

I think ST1 tends to be more desirable because:

a) (as said above) its harder to fake (buying a potential faked photocopy of a module REALLY puts me off paying top dollar)
b) its official TSR issue, which makes it a must for completists

And despite promises of large amounts of cash, not one surfaced at UK Gencon. Although someone reckoned they had the cover off it somewhere, but had lost the module itself.

I think the potential photocopy market on the other "big" modules is their main weakness. I speak to a lot of customers at shows, and this seems to be a real put-off.

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:35 am 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:This can drive prices through the roof especially if all the heavy-duty items start to fall into vast hands of collectors with the financial means to basically never have to sell them.

This is a huge problem for the Acaeum community, and as a loyal member, I am committed to help.  It's heartbreaking to see the growing number of rares being committed to a lifetime of misery crowded in an ever increasing collection with no chance of escape.  But YOU can help!

Anyone with too many rares may ship them to me and I'll ensure that they get sold.  As everyone knows by now, I just bought a house, so I don't have a lot of cash.  You never run the risk of your rare being kept by a collector with the financial means to never have to sell it.  Why not contribute now for the low low price of one rare per month.  Please give generously.  This is deimos3428, and I approve this message.

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:10 am 
 

Shit, another presidential candidate..........
I vote we all send Deimos our B2's. That way he can CougarRetard them and command a whopping $40 each.


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:23 am 
 

Beyondthebreach is right on the money.  Its not how rare it is, its how many people want it and how badly (which is due to some emotional spark or collecting obsession-not that I would know about any collecting obsession...)

By the way I dont have a shrinked B2 yet, so can I have one plz? :)

I should also add that sooner or later the emotional spark can and will die, and thats when you see all these rares for sale.  

Something to keep in mind when throwing mega bucks at them, chances are 20 years down the road no one will remember or care about them and that $1000 module will be just an old stapled togethor pamphlet.  :twisted:


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:51 am 
 

...and here I eagerly am with my 'Bohemian Ear Spoon #27' publication (from TSR The Mill), waiting for the frenzy to start.. :lol:

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:35 pm 
 

I am hording all the b2's!  muhahahahaha

I have like 60-70 of them now lol

  


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:18 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Shit, another presidential candidate..........
I vote we all send Deimos our B2's. That way he can CougarRetard them and command a whopping $40 each.

Well at least I got more votes than Nader.  :P If anyone has a rubber stamp with E.G.G's autograph, it would be greatly appreciated.  Signed B2's must be worth at least $100...

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:25 pm 
 

I have a shrinked B2 with cardboard header, so nyah nyah!


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:33 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:I have a shrinked B2 with cardboard header, so nyah nyah!


I saw a couple on ebay but the staples through the module just kill me....


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:28 pm 
 

Terminal_Frost wrote:I saw a couple on ebay but the staples through the module just kill me....


In itself this is quite intersting. I am struggling to think of any other products where damaging the product in order to display it is considered valid.

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:31 pm 
 

As long as that damage was caused by the originating company, anything's valid.  The stores themselves did not put the headers on.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:55 pm 
 

draco76 wrote:I am hording all the b2's!  muhahahahaha

I have like 60-70 of them now lol
8O  8O  8O

I can't believe that no one has asked this yet...
WHY?!

  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:25 am 
 

I saw a couple on ebay but the staples through the module just kill me....


I believe (or at least hope) that the reason TSR switched to glue for attaching the headers was that someone realized the damage the staples caused rather than an attempt at cost savings.

Cheers,
Curt [/quote]

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:37 am 
 

Aneoth wrote:
draco76 wrote:I am hording all the b2's!  muhahahahaha

I have like 60-70 of them now lol
8O  8O  8O

I can't believe that no one has asked this yet...
WHY?!


lol why not?  I get them for free in lots they might be worth $5 each in 20 years or so :D

  
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