Current Tsojconth auction
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:43 pm 
 

From the author's desciption of the current Tsojconth auction:

"I accumulated some of these with the plans to run it again as a dungeon which I did but then had a few left over that I've just kept all these years."

8O


- "When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro."

Hunter S. Thompson (July 18, 1937 - Feb 20, 2005)



  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:37 pm 
 

8O Ditto.....

  


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:52 am 
 

Questions from other buyers  

Q:  How many of these do you have, how many do you plan on selling and when? answered on: Nov-04-04  
  A:  Hello--- I have a few. This is the only one for sale at the moment. I don't know when I'll list any more. Thanks. Howard


8O  "Few" is a relative term, could be 2/3 or could mean 20+  

The recent rash of 10 mint-condition copies in a verified stash found during a hobby-store takeover, this seller, and....let's not forget that 3-holed copy that's been for sale forever. Also it seems everyone around here already has a copy or 2,3…..Hmmmm….I wonder how many can be accounted for?

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:30 pm 
 

The owner of that punched Tsojconth is still hoping to get $655 at their ebay store.

At least if I hole punched something, it was because the binding was damaged beyond the point of saving (if square bound), or the pages were ripped apart to begin with (saddle stitched).  These were on already damaged, non-collectible copies of books, so there was no value to begin with.  Plus I wanted to go with an inexpensive solution that would allow me to lay the book flat, which on more than a few of these books, is just not possible.

A Tsojconth is a different story.  I don't have one, but the equivalent in my collection would be going out of my way to destroy the binding of my copy of Dune: Chronicles of the Imperium simply to replace it with a tape binding.  Of course, I am comparing apples with oranges here.  After all, Tsojconth was almost thirty years ago, and people really didn't think about collectability back then, unlike today where you're unlikely to find severely damaged copies of Dune: Chronicles of the Imperium.



  

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:13 pm 
 

Bottom line, the original owner, or whomever, should NOT have hole punched the module. As a second ever produced module, it was always well known to be quite uncommon (Or should have been), even when it was new.....

Obviously way back then no one knew what we collecting geeks would pay for this item 30 years later, so a lot of understanding and some forgiveness should be offered to the offending hole puncher...

Of course, it is now one of the most rare D&D Items available. But unfortunately IMO being hole punched gives it far less value than if it were not hole punched...

  


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:14 am 
 

Aneoth wrote:Bottom line, the original owner, or whomever, should NOT have hole punched the module. As a second ever produced module, it was always well known to be quite uncommon (Or should have been), even when it was new.....

Obviously way back then no one knew what we collecting geeks would pay for this item 30 years later, so a lot of understanding and some forgiveness should be offered to the offending hole puncher...

Of course, it is now one of the most rare D&D Items available. But unfortunately IMO being hole punched gives it far less value than if it were not hole punched...


Imagine it's the late 70's and you're at some convention playing some game, and you get handed a few sheets of material in a ziploc bag.  You play the adventure, punch the sheets (so they don't get destroyed)  :!: and place them in a binder.  I think we should be happy some random tourney module survived this long at all...I would have thrown mine out after the convention, most likely.

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:59 am 
 

True, some would have tossed the module and zip lock bag out, and others would have treated them like a bunch of totally worthless papers in a bag and the modules would have been misplaced and lost at some point over the years.

That is why it is so valuable now. Because so few thought they would be worth beans 30 years later.

If everyone had saved their own copy in pristine condition, then the values would of course be much lower, since the number of available copies would be much higher.

As for the value of the hole punched module? I do not believe that it is worth so much as she has been trying to get for it. But I also do not believe that it is completely worthless either....

I made a lower offer to her at one point in one of her earlier auctions, she politely refused and she still owns it and is still trying to sell it.

At some point, someone will buy it for what she wants and she and that person will be happy I am sure, and I offer them both my congratulations in advance.

But that person will not be me… :)

  


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:52 am 
 

Aneoth wrote:

I made a lower offer to her at one point in one of her earlier auctions, she politely refused and she still owns it and is still trying to sell it.


I made an offer to her of $300 when it didn't make reserve a while back. I got no response, so I e-mailed again and moved the offer to $400 and still got no response. I think she's the poster child for PBS's Antique Roadshow. A close associate is an antique dealer and laughs at the inflated quotes of the "experts". I think she's been on the coach to long. Collecting ethics are completely out of hand as I'm sure you already know. Everyone thinks they have "the treasure" and values it at max price. :twisted:

Here's a funny fact I posted a little while back if you didn't see it.

 I just did the financing math on the Tsojconth if you got it at the $28 dollars a month it would take 6 years and a total of $1988 at final payment.


Financing still available :lol:

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:51 pm 
 

Was anybody else watching this one right when the bids jumped from ~$406 to >$1000?  8O

  


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:52 am 
 

tim66 wrote:Was anybody else watching this one right when the bids jumped from ~$406 to >$1000?  8O

This is in line with it's real value...I think most of us assumed a snipe would win it.

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:49 am 
 

Here we go again; another Tsoj on the block 8O

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... RK:MESE:IT

I'll take mine super-sized with a large coke :D

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:13 am 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:Here we go again; another Tsoj on the block 8O

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... RK:MESE:IT

I'll take mine super-sized with a large coke :D

Invincible 8)


What can I say? I'd been intending to do this for some time, and the appearance of the last one on eBay prompted me to get my lazy butt in gear  :)  ...and would you like fries with that?   :D

  

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Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:39 pm 
 

Yes, and supersize the American Fries too please.....

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:32 pm 
 

(fyi)
=== SECOND OFFER SCAM running off the back of this auction ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5931050279 ) ===

Have just confirmed this with the seller; attempting to contact other auction participants (and a warning to others, here).

Email received was as follows:


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]====>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: eBay Second Chance Offer from Seller Item number: 5931050279
>
> This email was sent by an eBay member via eBay's email forwarding system.
> If you reply to the email, your response will go directly to the member and
> not through eBay.
>
> eBay Marketplace Safety Tip:
> If this email is an offer to sell you an item without winning the listing
> on eBay, please report it to us at Contournement des frais de vente.
> Please do not respond to it.  Regardless of the apparent feedback of the
> sender or any claims they might make, such an offer is not only against our
> rules, but it is extremely risky.  It is unsafe to purchase such an item through
> a transaction that is not on our site. You will lose the benefit of eBay's
> purchase protection programs, and run the risk of losing your money.
>
> --------------------
>
>
> To member:   harami2000
> From member: baterii76
>
> --------------------
>
>
> You expressed interest in an item titled: <: LOST CAVERNS of TSOJCONTH - d&d module - rpg :> Item number: 5931050279 by bidding, however the auction has ended with another member as the high bidder. In compliance with eBay policy, the seller is making this Second Chance Offer to you at your bid price. The seller has issued this Second Chance Offer because either the winning bidder was unable to complete the transaction or the seller has duplicate items for sale. If you accept this offer, you will be able to exchange Feedback with the seller and will be eligible for eBay services associated with a transaction, such as fraud protection. To purchase this item please contact the seller at this email address :[email protected]
>           To learn more about Second Chance Offer go to: Making a Second Chance Offer
>
> Thank you, eBay, Inc.
>
> --------------------

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:39 pm 
 

Have contacted all auction particpants down to, and including, <mcduff> (that's as far as my message quota goes).

Text of message was:

======

Re: LOST CAVERNS of TSOJCONTH auction (5931050279).

There is a "second chance" scam running off the back of this auction. Have confirmed this with the seller.

Please also see:
Current Tsojconth auction • Collecting General •  The Acaeum

Kind regards,
David. <harami2000>



(p.s. and report sent to eBay ([email protected]) per eBay: Redirect )

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:21 pm 
 

On a completely different note, sandralock has relisted her 3-hole punched copy AGAIN.  I'm sort of feeling sad watching it go around..
cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&a ... RK:MEWA:IT

 YIM  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:31 pm 
 

Hey, at this rate it should be down to $500 or so next Christmas. Jesus, you'd think the idiot would realize he/she needs to shave a considerable amount off the price. $50 here and there isn't going to cut it.


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:37 pm 
 

Seller needs to let the market determine the price. Like Frank says, it is moronic to slightly adjust the price. Get clue...

I am guessing it would for around $200 on the open market.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:20 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Hey, at this rate it should be down to $500 or so next Christmas. Jesus, you'd think the idiot would realize he/she needs to shave a considerable amount off the price. $50 here and there isn't going to cut it.


I just read the auction and the seller is quoting the price from the acauem as VG.  Is there a description of what VG condition is on the site? If not maybe its just being inferred that it is VG...


"What can I get for $10?"

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:46 am 
 

There is a distinction that the seller is not making with this auction.

The module might very well be in very good condition. Actually, it sounds as if it is much better. The seller is adjusting the grade to reflect the hole punching - calling it VG by Acaeum standards.

Here's the problem. There are "collectors," then there is "everyone else."
Collectors want their items to be of collectable grade. At the very least it needs to be in "as printed" condition. No separated pages, writing, etc. The overall condition vaires depending on the individual collector. Some guys want shrink, some mint, some will take VG so long as it looks solid and has good color.

The "everyone else" category of buyer is looking for playing copies, reading material, etc. Quality control is not necessarily the determining factor on the purchase.

That module, and the other "RARES" described by Acaeum, cannot be judged that way. There are no "everybody else" buyers.

If I am selling a B7 for example and it is in near mint condition but it is hole punched, I will describe it that way. Collectors are gonna avoid it. But odds are, it is still gonna sell for about 75% of near mint value. It is a good module and there is a market for that module that includes a broad base of purchasers.

The "Rares" do not share the same market of purchasers. That market is dominated by Collectors. Collectors are not going to buy a "rare" item that has been de-factorized (no longer in original printed condition). They will buy a rare that has wear - shelf wear, yellowed pages, etc. Minor detractions that are due more to the toll of time than due to owner degradations.

So, while you can sell the ordinary TSR stuff that has been physically modified from factory condition, the "rares" do not follow that trend.

I wouldn't even use Poor or Fair to describe that Lost Caverns. Although Acaeum grading is general, it must be adjusted to fit the "rares". The standards are different because the purchasing audiance is different.
So back to our example. Acaeum might call our B7 as VG due to the hole punch, even though it is in mint condition otherwise. That gives us a good idea of actual value. That methodology does not work for the "rares".


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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