The Holy Grail is up for sale on E-Bay
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:17 pm 
 

hehe but sence he had a bid he can't edit the auction....  Your best bet would be to end it get everything stright and relist it with the better pictures.  :D

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:22 pm 
 

The set was purchased years ago at an estate sale for $10! I used to play D&D regularly (that is until 3rd edition ;) ) so it had some sentimental value for me. Kitsch factor aside, I am not enough of a serious collector to want to hang on this. I figured that someone would get more enjoyment out of this than me.

Oh, btw, I will end it and relist when you are all done debating the authenticity of the set. If that is what it takes, then so be it!

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:29 pm 
 

PeterFedofsky wrote:The set was purchased years ago at an estate sale for $10!

*blinks*.

Heh, heh. Hopefully no-one'll expect a cheaper price because of that!

PeterFedofsky wrote:I used to play D&D regularly (that is until 3rd edition ;) )

A bit of a touch topic on the board, I think :)

PeterFedofsky wrote:so it had some sentimental value for me. Kitsch factor aside, I am not enough of a serious collector to want to hang on this. I figured that someone would get more enjoyment out of this than me.

Almost as likely to be purchased as an investment (directly or indirectly), I'd expect.
"Get more enjoyment" can be a bit of cliche, sometimes!

d.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:31 pm 
 

PeterFedofsky wrote:The set was purchased years ago at an estate sale for $10! I used to play D&D regularly (that is until 3rd edition ;) ) so it had some sentimental value for me. Kitsch factor aside, I am not enough of a serious collector to want to hang on this. I figured that someone would get more enjoyment out of this than me.

Oh, btw, I will end it and relist when you are all done debating the authenticity of the set. If that is what it takes, then so be it!


I tell ya what man you got it for $10 I'll send ya a $20 for it  :P Double your money in just one year what an investment lol!

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:34 pm 
 

PeterFedofsky wrote:Oh, btw, I will end it and relist when you are all done debating the authenticity of the set. If that is what it takes, then so be it!

Was thinking to email you that suggestion. Might not be a bad idea owing to the "error in listing" and certainly valid to do so on that basis.

Authenticity of the component parts seems fine here (as far as can be told without having the set in front of me!).
A few queries on recent "received understanding" of woodgrain direction and the matter of it being a chimaera are separate matters, IMHO.

(Again, all comments 02 cents only)

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:34 pm 
 

draco76 wrote:I tell ya what man you got it for $10 I'll send ya a $20 for it  :P Double your money in just one year what an investment lol!

*slaps Draco with a trout* ;)

(Told you, Peter... Sorry 'bout that!)

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:35 pm 
 

LMAO! I knew that I should not have revealed that tidbit... I have ended the auction pending the ongoing discussion. Having been sniped a billion times on EBay, I understand how unfair it can be. I would much rather take offers from those interested parties here. It seems a fair way to get around the pains of EBay. Thanks for all of your understanding.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:39 pm 
 

PeterFedofsky wrote:LMAO! I knew that I should not have revealed that tidbit... I have ended the auction pending the ongoing discussion. Having been sniped a billion times on EBay, I understand how unfair it can be. I would much rather take offers from those interested parties here. It seems a fair way to get around the pains of EBay. Thanks for all of your understanding.

Doing business on eBay is still safer and deliberately taking offers off-auction is against their rules (yeah, no comment!).

Nothing to stop you agreeing a price and putting it back on with a BIN at that level, however.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:39 pm 
 

I'm setting my snipe at $20  :P

who cares what ya paid for it, its all about whats its worth

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:41 pm 
 

draco76 wrote:I'm setting my snipe at $20  :P

who cares what ya paid for it, its all about whats its worth

*points to the hammerhead shark I've got spare*

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:48 pm 
 

Just a bit of further info about the set:

-Woodgrain is horizontal
-Side label is 3 inches and on the right side as you hold the box
-Inside back cover of book one has no printer listed.
-Inside back covers of 2 and 3 have Graphic Printing Company listed

That's all I have!

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:13 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:[ Image ]


(bidding history on that set of Paul's, fyi)

Apr-02-04 19:11:46 PST         US $2,282.00         stormber
Apr-02-04 19:11:50 PST         US $2,257.00         rjdickerson
Apr-02-04 19:11:37 PST         US $1,801.99         tclayton4sq0
Apr-02-04 19:11:44 PST         US $1,279.00         edfernandez
Apr-02-04 11:16:25 PST         US $1,051.00         rangifertarandus
Apr-02-04 19:09:10 PST         US $952.00         burntwire
Apr-02-04 19:08:00 PST         US $925.00         burntwire
Apr-02-04 11:07:53 PST         US $900.00         provoost
Apr-01-04 17:02:07 PST         US $827.00         rangifertarandus
Apr-02-04 08:09:58 PST         US $805.00         burntwire
Apr-01-04 19:00:14 PST         US $777.00         burntwire
Apr-01-04 11:09:33 PST         US $746.00         lovetoclose
Mar-30-04 23:13:01 PST         US $742.00         cgould42
Mar-31-04 20:25:12 PST         US $725.00         burntwire
Mar-31-04 20:10:45 PST         US $700.01         lovetoclose
Mar-31-04 07:03:18 PST         US $677.00         burntwire
Mar-26-04 21:00:44 PST         US $630.00         indigoprime
Mar-25-04 09:58:18 PST         US $555.00         cgould42
Mar-26-04 21:00:20 PST         US $530.00         indigoprime
Mar-23-04 20:10:28 PST         US $505.00         thefantasymuseum
Mar-25-04 00:57:45 PST         US $150.00         edmud
Mar-24-04 14:15:32 PST         US $102.50         virginian4
Mar-24-04 06:41:37 PST         US $99.00         mcduff

(not a cougie in sight ;))

  


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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:07 am 
 

Good info, David.

Here's the plan. I will let you all debate the authenticity and general worth of this set. When you all can come up with a fair consensus of a BIN price, I will relist the item on EBay. The other option is that the bidding can be done here. The only fair way to bid outside of EBay would be to have a completely transparent bidding process. I would not want to have people emailing me bids and then have someone make the accusation that any party was not being honest. Thoughts? Suggestions?

  

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:52 am 
 

Hi Peter -

My $0.02 worth - I think you should run the auction through ebay. Much less hassle all round (as opposed to running an open auction through the boards here).

As long as you provide clear scans and info when requested, I can't see how you would have a problem.

I thought your starting bid of $1000 was OK as well - I would have thought your set would sell for somewhere between $1000-$2000, all things being equal.

Throw the set up on ebay, answer all the questions as they come in, those who are seriously interested will throw their hats into the ring at some stage during the auction, and the rest of us will sit back and enjoy the fun.

Regards

Mike

  


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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:25 am 
 

PeterFedofsky wrote:Good info, David.

Here's the plan. I will let you all debate the authenticity and general worth of this set. When you all can come up with a fair consensus of a BIN price, I will relist the item on EBay. The other option is that the bidding can be done here. The only fair way to bid outside of EBay would be to have a completely transparent bidding process. I would not want to have people emailing me bids and then have someone make the accusation that any party was not being honest. Thoughts? Suggestions?

This is more of a guess/bet than a valuation, but I'm gonna say $1611.38.  :D (I won't be bidding, however).

 YIM  

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:05 am 
 

Peter.

Let me first apologize for not giving you enough benefit of doubt.
And thanks again for removing my ignorant bid and then ending the Auction. Without question, your actions in this situation have given me great respect for your honesty and integrity.

BTW: What the heck are you other people talking about??

Why must Peter re-list his box set? His life is his own to live and his choices are his own to make; E-Bay is not lord and god of the world! At least not yet anyway...

What is NOT on E-Bay is perfectly OK to sell, trade, buy, or barter in any way that the people involved choose. Peter's Box Set is no longer on E-Bay, so what he chooses to do with it is his right!

If he wants, he can toss it in a fire, or allow his dog to have it for a chew toy!
(PLEASE DON'T DO THAT THOUGH)

E-Bay does not control our lives and they cannot control what we do off of E-Bay. You who say he MUST re-list the box set are giving E-Bay far more power than they either deserve or warrant. Especially in this case, wherein the seller admitted errors in the auction and pulled it from the block. THERE IS NO AUCTION NOW!

I do not believe that it would be a problem for Peter to sell, or trade the box Set off of E-Bay after he ended the auction; of course he would still be required to pay the fees from the auction that he ended early.

What some of you are saying with your comments seems to be that we as individuals MUST abide by E-Bay rules or die no matter the reasons for doing so.... truly, I feel that you are taking those rules even further than E-Bay intended them to go. Although I suspect that they would not argue with you on the matter, since your strange protracted interpretations of E-Bay listing riles favors them in every possible way! Are you guys shareholders in the company???

I truly see no reason why anyone should not be able to sell, buy, trade or barter for anything off of E-Bay when an auction is no longer on E-Bay. Yes, while an auction is ongoing that is all totally against E-Bay policies and rules, not to mention not being morally sound. But this item is no longer part of any on going Auction. That auction is over with, ended, done!

I choose to live my own life and I will buy, sell, trade, or barter in any way I feel appropriate whenever I want, wherever I want, and in whatever way I want to, and I will not ask E-Bays permission to do so......

Peter, I will double again what draco76 has offered....  40 bucks!!
lol, only kidding. ;-)

Now as to the value to give your set:

The following are MY opinions alone and do not reflect in any way the opinions or stance of The Acaeum, or its staff; everyone is perfectly within his/her rights to shoot me down with ballistic missiles and disagree with me and if you do disagree with me, I wont even report you to E-Bay.

Peter; what you actually have, and all here seem to agree with the facts of this are the following items:

1) An Excellent to Near Mint condition Wood Grain Box (IMO; it is still Unconfirmed which Print Run);
2-3) Near Mint to Mint copies of each of the Volume One and Volume Two from the First Print Run of the Wood Grain Box Set (The only certainty in the set);
4) Good to Excellent copy of Volume Three from a later box set (Unknown which set, but certainly Not a First Print);
5) Correction sheet from a later box set (Unknown which set, but certainly Not a First Print, and not really relevant).

The following are my explanations of the overall value of each item, based on the pictures and your own descriptions:

The damage to the upper left portion of the third book seem to indicate that at some point someone's dog DID thing the book was a chew toy. This is obviously very bad for THAT books overall value, not to mention the fact that the book is certainly NOT an original book for the First Print run of the Box Set.

Which brings me to my next point; The First Print Wood Grain Box Set that you have is not a complete box set. It is missing fully one fourth of its overall value by the fact that it is missing Volume Three. Realistically speaking, the third book in the set that you have now is nothing more than an extra book added as filler for convenience to the future owner.

However, there is still the Excellent condition Box (Unconfirmed which Print Run). I am willing to conscientiously believe (Unless proven otherwise) that the box is indeed part of a First Print Run Wood Grain Box Set.

Volume One and Volume Two have seemingly been confirmed to be a part of a First Print Run of the Wood Grain Box Set. As such, there is no doubt that those two books are quite valuable by themselves, especially since they are in Mint condition, but that does NOT make this set a complete First Print Run of the Wood Grain Box Set even if we were to stretch our the imagination to extremes.

I would therefore value the incomplete box set at or about the grade of Very Good to Excellent, based on the Acaeums lists.  There is no way I could place a value anywhere near the top listed value shown on that list for recent sales of similar Box Sets. Those were to my knowledge ALL complete sets.

So, after this long-winded script, what is my final conclusion?
I am afraid that the set that you have is quite unfortunately, incomplete. And that is truly tragic.  :cry:  As I was perfectly willing to accept the wrath of my wife and put myself to the curb with no roof over my balding head for a First Print Woody.

Tragically, your set is much like the set of Wood Grain Set Books with NO box at all, which sold on E-Bay (Along with several other rare books included in the auction) for less than $150 less than a month ago. I know, I was bidding on it just for the woody books alone. Someone here (I forget who) can attest to this as he won the auction by sniping me!

No box = No box set.  :!:
Only two books with a box = No box set.  :!:

There you go.... my 2 coppers worth....

  


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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:30 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:Why must Peter re-list his box set?

<clip>

Heh, heh. I didn't say "must"; just referred to eBay "rules" and then added "yeah, no comment!".
(For all they make of contractual law, eBay is pretty abyssmal at keeping their end of the deal to prevent illegal auctions and suchlike).

=

If you remember, I was actually sold a set of 1st print books (well, with that dodgy colored 3rd volume) for $150 off-auction and it was in the post to myself... Only after this, people here threatened to report the seller for making a sale off eBay (for various personal reasons).
As a result, the seller re-auctioned the books when they were returned to him by a fluke in the postal system. (Cost me an extra $258 in the process, albeit didn't grudge the first $100 or so).

Of course, someone else might not be at all fussed about what eBay does to their account.
Fact remains, however, that quite a few people might actually prefer an above-board eBay auction for extra security; even if it is a "rearranged"/pre-agreed auction with a set BIN price.
Yes, all of this is Peter's call. Nice position to find oneself in :)

=

(oh; and as an aside, I'm very glad the auction didn't start low (like $9.99!) and end low with an agreed off-auction sale, had Peter not done his research! Am well aware that many people here would've done the deal and run... and quite possibly re-sold the next week).


<comments on "value" to follow, fwiw... 0.002 cents, at best>

  


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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:18 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:I would therefore value the incomplete box set at or about the grade of Very Good to Excellent, based on the Acaeums lists.  There is no way I could place a value anywhere near the top listed value shown on that list for recent sales of similar Box Sets. Those were to my knowledge ALL complete sets.

So, after this long-winded script, what is my final conclusion?
I am afraid that the set that you have is quite unfortunately, incomplete. And that is truly tragic.  :cry:  As I was perfectly willing to accept the wrath of my wife and put myself to the curb with no roof over my balding head for a First Print Woody.

Tragically, your set is much like the set of Wood Grain Set Books with NO box at all, which sold on E-Bay (Along with several other rare books included in the auction) for less than $150 less than a month ago. I know, I was bidding on it just for the woody books alone. Someone here (I forget who) can attest to this as he won the auction by sniping me!

No box = No box set.  :!:
Only two books with a box = No box set.  :!:

There you go.... my 2 coppers worth....

OK....
My take, and just a personal opinion since Peter asked for these.

I know there are investors, resellers, wealthy individuals and tax-deductable orgs (*grr*) who might state a higher value or be "able to afford" more, for obvious reasons.

Best to start on firm foundations, however...

- The highest obtained for an EX/M 2nd print set is $850, less than a year ago. Probably hasn't declined in "value" since then.
- The 2nd print volume 3 in this set has a fault. This ain't terminal by any stretch of the imagination and would be on the purchaser's "to be replaced" list, anyhow.
- "Added value" for a 1st print box is difficult to attribute since we still have no consensus on woodgrain direction and there's is known degree of "mix and match" randomness, anyhow (as with per Acaeum notes and my recent comment on 4th- prints Post research tidbits here ).
At best(?), 1st and (most) 2nd prints do appear to have smaller box labels.

Working upwards...

- Paul's 1st print (EX/NM; although the box /appears/ to be better) got caught up in last-minute bidding and last-second manual and automatic sniping (see the auction history, above). The end result was higher than expected and the support level appears to be around $1,800, albeit I'm sure there are other snipes that didn't make it onto the system).
- Some people still state that the odd colored 3rd volume in Paul's set deserves a scarcity premium. Others that it may be a reprint or other anomoly. As discussed before...

Looking at The Acaeum estimates, auction histories and by comparison with other collecting fields it is clear that values increase strongly towards (and for) the first prints and fairly strongly towards mint condition; both factors combining to an extent.
Moreso, the premium for "getting everything together" is clearly there, hence my attempted disaggregations on Original TSR Box Sets w/ no box, what can be expected? which no-one has yet denounced. (And they are a reasonable first-cut match to the realisations).

Resistors...
- The set ain't worth top-dollar premiums (above) until someone gives up a NM 1st print volume 3.
- It /should/ be easier to obtain such a book, than an appropriate box, even though the former would be (1/1,000) whereas the latter is still (1/most of 3,000?), since books are usuall found in higher grading.
- However, in obtaining, it is likely that another set would be "destroyed".

Finger-in-the-air...

1) On component parts (using numbers from my other post)...
- Box (presuming OK on the side, too): EX: $600 (or a bit higher).
- Books; factoring in minor damage to vol. 3: EX-EX+; (1st print; $500, 2nd print; $250)-- averaging out (oh the horror of doing so! *g*): $425.
= $1,025-1,050.
Couldn't allocate a "well matched set" premium on the basis of 1st or 2nd print quotes, but possibly a lesser figure (+10-15%) to allow for good appearance and potential.
= $1,150-1,200, say.

2) On realisations (per above)...
- 2nd print (per before) - $850 (and forgiving the current volume 3 that minor defect).
- 1st print (with allowances for the nature of high bidding on "one offs") - $1,800, say, based on "support level".
... Taking a "stab in the dark", difficulty in completing the set without damaging others and making allowances for weighting towards volume 1 might yield $1,200, say. (Science, what science?).

Anyhow... add in further presumptions.
(BIN "carrot"; +10% say = $1,250-$1,325 by method 1; $1,300-$1,350 by method 2... possibly a bit more).
(aside: even if not BIN'd, the current strength of foreign currencies could add 10% or more if the auction was opened to, or made easier for, such buyers).

...Plus of course presumption regarding no dramatic paradigm shift in bidding/valuation (difficult to tell just now!), "one off" sale effect, or other people being able to bid higher for various reasons such as tax breaks or being able to resell at collectors auctions or via private sales lists.
i.e. This needn't be a self-fulfilling prophecy, just an attempt to /estimate/ an extremely difficult item in a somewhat niche market with a limited number of buyers.

To sum up the above: $1,025 (lower base estimate) ranging to mid $1,300s (allowing for BIN offers and suchlike)

Anyone care to rip this to shreds, now? ;)

Regards,
David.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:26 pm 
 

Aneoth is right. Verbose, but right.
Except in one thing: First Print values don't apply to it, since it is incomplete. If I had a 1st print PHB, and 1/3 of the pages had been removed and replaced with pages from a 5th print, it is no longer a 1st print PHB. So the values don't apply.
Ebay? Fuck eBay. He listed it, and now it isn't listed. If he had ended the listing to sell it to someone, that's one thing. But he didn't. He's free to sell it to whomever he wants.


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Post Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:32 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Aneoth is right. Verbose, but right.

Heh, you thought <aneoth> was verbose.
I'd better go hide, Frank! ;)

  
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