the one that got away....
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:10 pm 
 

Man, I totally forgot about it!  Damn!


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:28 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:Wow, I am surprised this went this cheap:


** expired/removed eBay auction **


I saw Stephen's bid on it and just tossed in a small bid overtop to subtly let him know that I knew what he was bidding on.  After I got outbid, I figured it was probably common knowledge what was included within this auction, which apparently I was wrong. :?


Everytime I see one of those box sets in my searches, I check to see if there is a Jade Hare with it.  As I recall, that is the 4th set in the last few years that has had a Jade Hare . . . sure, the owners may have added them in, but I can't help being curious if TSR just shoved some extra Jade Hares into a few of these sets (same time era, some "no cover" module format).


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:58 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:
Everytime I see one of those box sets in my searches, I check to see if there is a Jade Hare with it.  As I recall, that is the 4th set in the last few years that has had a Jade Hare . . . sure, the owners may have added them in, but I can't help being curious if TSR just shoved some extra Jade Hares into a few of these sets (same time era, some "no cover" module format).


No, the reason that they keep popping up with those sets(I just found another one this last week, not this one though :wink: ) is because within this game there was a loose offer sheet inside the set that were meant to be mailed back into to the TSR Hobby Shop to get the free complimentary  "Jade Hare" module.  I figure that because the original offer was included within that set and the fact that it was supposed to be used a supplemental for that set, that they are frequently just dropped in those boxes by the owners when the recieved them by mail.  Additionally, apparently the TSR Hobby Shop at some point(if not from the very begining) had a long delay in mailing them out as I will soon have 2 Jade Hares with an apology letter, apologizing for the delay of the free module.  Someone else(not from here I don't believe) actually sold a Jade Hare a few months ago on Ebay that also included this same apology letter.[/u]


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:41 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
No, the reason that they keep popping up with those sets(I just found another one this last week, not this one though :wink: ) is because within this game there was a loose offer sheet inside the set that were meant to be mailed back into to the TSR Hobby Shop to get the free complimentary  "Jade Hare" module.  I figure that because the original offer was included within that set and the fact that it was supposed to be used a supplemental for that set, that they are frequently just dropped in those boxes by the owners when the recieved them by mail.  Additionally, apparently the TSR Hobby Shop at some point(if not from the very begining) had a long delay in mailing them out as I will soon have 2 Jade Hares with an apology letter, apologizing for the delay of the free module.  Someone else(not from here I don't believe) actually sold a Jade Hare a few months ago on Ebay that also included this same apology letter.[/u]


I myself have bought this boxed set at a local HPB and found a Jade Hare inside when I got home...apparantly the practice of including them in the box was pretty widespread. IIRC the box also had a Mail Order Hobby Shop reciept inside...

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:22 pm 
 

Howdy All,


Well, I am going to report this but you should all probably sit down. This won't be easy.

You remember this:


** expired/removed eBay auction **


Yeah, well, we blew it. The guy listed it as "2e" because the Acaeum listed a pre-pub (presumably "1e" as far as the seller was concerned). I have confirmed it with the buyer - it is - steady - a 1st print with all three original booklets and - urk - a dated, personal note from Gary Gygax just 9 months after the release of the D&D game. It sold for less than $900. A diamond right before our eyes and mislabled at our own hand. :cry:

Here is the reply (of doom):

"I have determined that it meets all the criteria below and is, in fact, a January 1974 first edition. There was one other earlier version, the Pre-Publication set produced in 1973. The only difference between that one and this one is that the brown boxes were plain with no artwork or stickers. Hope this helps." (he then goes on to quote the Acaeum entry)

Now that has to be THE one that got away for the year! Three cheers to the fellow who won it in plain sight!


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Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:36 pm 
 

The Collector's Trove wrote:Howdy All,


Well, I am going to report this but you should all probably sit down. This won't be easy.

You remember this:


** expired/removed eBay auction **


Yeah, well, we blew it. The guy listed it as "2e" because the Acaeum listed a pre-pub (presumably "1e" as far as the seller was concerned). I have confirmed it with the buyer - it is - steady - a 1st print with all three original booklets and - urk - a dated, personal note from Gary Gygax just 9 months after the release of the D&D game. It sold for less than $900. A diamond right before our eyes and mislabled at our own hand. :cry:

Here is the reply (of doom):

"I have determined that it meets all the criteria below and is, in fact, a January 1974 first edition. There was one other earlier version, the Pre-Publication set produced in 1973. The only difference between that one and this one is that the brown boxes were plain with no artwork or stickers. Hope this helps." (he then goes on to quote the Acaeum entry)

Now that has to be THE one that got away for the year! Three cheers to the fellow who won it in plain sight!


Futures bright,

Paul


Wow!!

Great deal!!


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:52 am 
 

The Collector's Trove wrote:Howdy All,


Well, I am going to report this but you should all probably sit down. This won't be easy.

You remember this:


** expired/removed eBay auction **


Yeah, well, we blew it. The guy listed it as "2e" because the Acaeum listed a pre-pub (presumably "1e" as far as the seller was concerned). I have confirmed it with the buyer - it is - steady - a 1st print with all three original booklets and - urk - a dated, personal note from Gary Gygax just 9 months after the release of the D&D game. It sold for less than $900. A diamond right before our eyes and mislabled at our own hand. :cry:

Here is the reply (of doom):

"I have determined that it meets all the criteria below and is, in fact, a January 1974 first edition. There was one other earlier version, the Pre-Publication set produced in 1973. The only difference between that one and this one is that the brown boxes were plain with no artwork or stickers. Hope this helps." (he then goes on to quote the Acaeum entry)

Now that has to be THE one that got away for the year! Three cheers to the fellow who won it in plain sight!


Futures bright,

Paul


:lol:

The ISoldIt seller should have sent this to the winner ten days ago.
Are you sure he's not trying to wind up the losers? Or else, just clueless by quoting the Acaeum pre-pub?

There is no connection between the note and the box: no reference to "here's a freebie for you", or anything like that.

Remember this, Paul? Does anyone have a genuine non-variant 1st print otherwise? Would love to know, if so...

Image

vs.

Image

And it ain't a variant (=late) U&WA, either.

Image

So, if that somehow is a first print, there's still some explaining to do and/or corrections to the established list.
*waves to everyone with first/second prints to double check, please* :)


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:33 am 
 

faro wrote:And it ain't a variant (=late) U&WA, either.



Based on the color of the card-stock?  Please explain.  

And welcome back!   :D


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:44 am 
 

bombadil wrote:Based on the color of the card-stock?  Please explain

*nods*. That's a part of the story.

"V" under "D" = 1st variant (= late) rejigging of the plates and continues to the 2nd (as above). Haven't seen any other set yet that contradicts that.
And to confirm the auctioned item isn't a 1st variant, yes the cardstock for U&WA is the same as for the other two books. And the book sizes are the same, too.

If the auctioned item is by some miracle a first print, there's some headscratching to do on the sequences and the Acaeum needs to take the blame for persisting in listing the "1973 pre-pub" long, long after the discussion with Frank Mentzer which finally (and should have been visibly) killed that off.
All told, second print would be rather less painful, no? ;)


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:11 am 
 

Welcome back faro, nice to see you around again,

Didn't Frank mentzer also warn against broad assumptions based around paper tone differences and tiny size variations?  There might be many such variations in a complex print run and we should perhaps be wary of drawing broad conclusions - like that there were several different and distinct print runs of the 1st ed. (or indeed around the existence of the pre-pub  :D ).

[edited to add, yes. 2nd ed. would be a lot less painful  :D ]


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:52 am 
 

red_bus wrote:Didn't Frank mentzer also warn against broad assumptions based around paper tone differences and tiny size variations?


Yep. No broad assumptions: just basing off several dozen "original" woodies and incorporating any extra data as that might become available.
(Having forum members actively encourage each other to hybridise sets doesn't exactly help in that; and I'm sure that various hybrids have been sold on from lack of knowledge as to what grief that causes when trying to work things out, later. :roll:)

red_bus wrote:There might be many such variations in a complex print run and we should perhaps be wary of drawing broad conclusions - like that there were several different and distinct print runs of the 1st ed. (or indeed around the existence of the pre-pub  :D ).


The print run should not be that complex, given the number of books we're talking about. And the covers were applied by the printer, too.

red_bus wrote:[edited to add, yes. 2nd ed. would be a lot less painful  :D ]

No joke... but perhaps you're not just saying that in quite the same way as I am, Steven. ;)


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:07 am 
 

Additional data: 1st print
Confirmed purchase date 10/18/1974 (receipted)
'Hybrid' - original set - as books 2+3 cardstock match, whereas book 1 differs.
3rd book: 'v' right side lines up with 'e' right side.
i147.photobucket.com/albums/r292/adderm ... 1216_1.jpg


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:11 am 
 

[threadjack]  Speaking of Frank, I miss having him around. I know he is most likely very busy with his bakery at this time of the year, but I still miss having him around.  His knowledge and insights into these things is always very helpful [/threadjack]


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:15 am 
 

We'll have to put a collection around to see if we can get him here to Oz for 2008  :lol:


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:22 am 
 

Howdy David,


faro wrote:The ISoldIt seller should have sent this to the winner ten days ago. Are you sure he's not trying to wind up the losers? Or else, just clueless by quoting the Acaeum pre-pub?


The quote is from the winner. I am working on getting a scan from him and detail on vol. 3.

faro wrote:There is no connection between the note and the box: no reference to "here's a freebie for you", or anything like that.


Sure but it is a nice bit of anectdotal evidence to pile on top. Inductive reasoning is more fun than deductive reasoning any day!

faro wrote:Remember this, Paul? Does anyone have a genuine non-variant 1st print otherwise? Would love to know, if so...


Yes, yet another reason why I think the variant cover stock is from a later print run, contemporary with the 2nd print. My 1st print conforms to yours.

faro wrote:And it ain't a variant (=late) U&WA, either.


Right. I think that they somehow assymetrically sold out of Vol. 3 or otherwise lost that stock and reprinted it between September 1974 and March 1975. That ties in with the release of Tractics in the vertical woodgrain boxes too. (Side note - my 1st print Tractics has the same dice price crossout as the 1st print Greyhawk. That, among other things, makes them contemporary, I think, giving a release date of, roughly, March/April 1975 for Tractics.)

Thanks for coming back! :P Let me know if you'd consider trading or selling the WD flier.


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Paul


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:24 am 
 

Howdy,


AdderMcOne wrote:'Hybrid' - original set - as books 2+3 cardstock match, whereas book 1 differs.


How does the Vol. 1 cover vary?


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:12 pm 
 

faro wrote:Yep. No broad assumptions: just basing off several dozen "original" woodies and incorporating any extra data as that might become available.
(Having forum members actively encourage each other to hybridise sets doesn't exactly help in that; and I'm sure that various hybrids have been sold on from lack of knowledge as to what grief that causes when trying to work things out, later. )


I appreciate that - and I have only ever seen two woodies 'in the flesh' (so to speak  :D ).  

But given your larger sample size, let me put my point as a question: have you seen any/many first print sets where all three booklets were, exactly the same same size, and exactly the same colour/tone ?

Having some experience of printers, I can understand how using different cardstock or print plate jiggling can lead to many different subtle variations within one print job.  But there is a leap from subtle differences within one print job, to assuming two (or perhaps more) print jobs.



Hmmm... if it is a 1st print then I will say that it also looked a bit trashed - but let me be clear, that is purely sour grapes on my part for not bidding.  :lol:


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Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:23 pm 
 

> How does the Vol. 1 cover vary?

Brendon's ($4225, 7/26/06) is an interesting one from the perspective of plate placement, book size and even card stock.
I was laying off asking questions until later, since it's still within "easy reach" of research. ;)

books: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/ ... 0/83_3.jpg
receipt: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/ ... 0/10_3.jpg


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