Disputing Paypal charges from a credit card
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:29 am 
 

Well, I just got eburned.  This is the auction:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... RK:MEWN:IT

Item was advertised as "new in box," but it is missing five figures.  The seller refuses to refund.  I paid with a credit card through Paypal.  I filed a complaint with Paypal but they don't do anything unless you don't receive the item.  Evidently even an empty box counts as receipt of some product and then they offer no protection.  
Can I contest the charges with my credit card company (Visa)?
Any advice appreciated.  Thanks.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:52 am 
 

Howdy,


dathon wrote:Well, I just got eburned.  This is the auction:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& ... RK:MEWN:IT

Item was advertised as "new in box," but it is missing five figures.  The seller refuses to refund.  I paid with a credit card through Paypal.  I filed a complaint with Paypal but they don't do anything unless you don't receive the item.  Evidently even an empty box counts as receipt of some product and then they offer no protection.  
Can I contest the charges with my credit card company (Visa)?
Any advice appreciated.  Thanks.


Yes. Ask to return the item. Get it in writing (emails are fine). If he refuses twice you are legally covered. If you mail it, use registered mail and save the tracking number. Call your credit card company, say the guy has refused twice to accept a return. They will do a chargeback. You will get your money refunded and PayPal will get the chargeback. They in turn will deduct it from his PayPal account.

If the fool doesn't accept a return and you have twice attempted to return it - guess what? The item is yours.

In a transaction, with a credit card, you hold the trump. Whatever BS people put in their auction about "no returns" or "item sold as is", if they misrepresent it that's it. Sellers can waste their breath all they want, what they say in their auction description has no legal bearing whatsoever.

You have the final rights, a credit card gives you the power to enforce it. Unlike PayPal your credit card company values you as a customer. They don't give a fig about anyone else. If their customer wants a chargeback, their customer gets a chargeback.

I have done this twice and in both cases I got my money back and the seller ended up without an item. The big sellers on eBay never behave so foolishly because they know they will loose.


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:59 am 
 

Paul is 100% right.


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:15 pm 
 

Doesn't PayPal have some sort of thing where they make you waive rights to chargebacks?  I remember being really apprehensive about something that seemed to indicate this.

Were they forced to drop it, or just don't enforce it?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:25 pm 
 

Thanks a bunch to stormber for the very helpful advice.  After I explained about the chargeback scenario, he sent me a refund via Paypal and I will be sending the item back to him.  
:D

  


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:34 pm 
 

Hi Dathon,

I see, you are busy getting all those miniatures for your collection? I wonder, which minis are very hard to find and / or very expensive? I haven't done a lot of research on miniatures yet. (I'm talking about D&D/AD&D minis here).


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:29 pm 
 

Ralf Toth wrote:Hi Dathon,

I see, you are busy getting all those miniatures for your collection? I wonder, which minis are very hard to find and / or very expensive? I haven't done a lot of research on miniatures yet. (I'm talking about D&D/AD&D minis here).


The most expensive D&D/AD&D miniatures to collect are anything to do with dragons... any kind of dragons.  The reason is that auctions for miniatures of dragons draw in people who know little of D&D but who like to collect dragon figurines and miniatures.  In Rhea's auction earlier this year for a rare TSR in-house red dragon miniature, I was locked in a bidding war (this was before I became a sniper) with, judging from the person's history, an ardent dragon miniature collector.  Eventually at the final bid he/she won at about $175 if I remember correctly.  There's a lot of competition for those dragons.  Planescape demons or whatever they were called then also go for a lot.  A lot of the Ral Partha AD&D official line monsters also go for a pretty penny, especially the large ones such as any giants, or the usual drow and orcs which everybody uses.  It's been fun the past few months collecting the Ral Partha AD&D line, and I would say I now have more than two-thirds of the entire line.  I also really dig old Grenadier minis and Heritage ones as well.  It's all the nostalgia factor....  :wink:

  


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:15 am 
 

Thanks, Dathon. I remember Rhea's Dragon auction. Now, what are you going to collect when you have all the minis ...


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:29 am 
 

Ralf Toth wrote:Thanks, Dathon. I remember Rhea's Dragon auction. Now, what are you going to collect when you have all the minis ...


Also keep in mind these were meant to be hobby kits as well.  The market for these items is huge, not just a niche for role players.  

You have the hobbyists, the collectors & also the gamers going after them so the prices can skyrocket very easily with opened ones usually selling just as much as unopened ones.


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:53 am 
 

Ralf Toth wrote:Thanks, Dathon. I remember Rhea's Dragon auction. Now, what are you going to collect when you have all the minis ...


:D
Oh, I figure just trying to round up all these minis will keep me occupied for a while.  There's a lot of Ral Partha, Grenadier and Heritage out there, as well as Minifigs, Citadel, Martian Metals and other smaller manufacturers.  I just found out that Wee Warriors had a minis line back in the day as well.  I'll have to keep my eyes open for that...

  


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:50 pm 
 

Yeah, I guess so. BTW, what's that miniature in your avatar picture? Is that something special? Like, an "Anniversary Ral Partha Lich" in pure gold ( 8O ) or something?


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:54 pm 
 

Terminal_Frost wrote:
Ralf Toth wrote:Thanks, Dathon. I remember Rhea's Dragon auction. Now, what are you going to collect when you have all the minis ...


Also keep in mind these were meant to be hobby kits as well.  The market for these items is huge, not just a niche for role players.  

You have the hobbyists, the collectors & also the gamers going after them so the prices can skyrocket very easily with opened ones usually selling just as much as unopened ones.


What's the story with the D&D plastic minis from WOTC? I just recently did some research because I thought that would save me some time using these during play, since I don't have to paint them. They're all classified as Common, Uncommon, Rare (did I see something like Ultra-rare? or was that only a Game Emporium (R.I.P.) auction ...). Did WOTC make this classification depending on the number of miniatures produced?


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:36 pm 
 

It's typical WoTC. They make the figures in "boosters" that you buy. You get a ton of commons, some uncommons, and 1 rare, usually. If I remember correctly. Theoretically you buy more boosters because you want to get that Super Ultra Mega Rare. They suck.
That figure in his picture is from one of the Grenadier boxed sets. I have it, just don't rmember which one.


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:28 pm 
 

Ralf Toth wrote:Yeah, I guess so. BTW, what's that miniature in your avatar picture? Is that something special? Like, an "Anniversary Ral Partha Lich" in pure gold ( 8O ) or something?


Nah Ralf, that's a Grenadier figurine for sure---an illusionist IIRC, probably from the 20-count Adventurers box.  It could be real gold I suppose---I'll have to leave that for William to clarify :D


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:02 pm 
 

Howdy All,


It is an illusionist figure from the Specialists box set by Grenadier (2006). It was part of a promotion for the Gold Line being the Official Advanced Dungeons and Dragons miniature line. The figure was gold plated and put into 25 (?) boxes. A person who found it in a newly purchased set won a bunch of miniatures.

I missed the bidding on the one Dathon has - kick myself every time I see the little bugger.  :( If I remember correctly it went for a song.

Dathon?


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:21 pm 
 

Paul's info is spot on, the gold plated illusionist mini was a Grenadier promotion for their official AD&D solid gold line of minis.  It was advertised quite often back in the day on the back page of Dragon magazine.  I believe I picked it up on pre-eBay frp.marketplace for about $18 or so.  There's also a gold basilisk out there from Grenadier.... the same basilisk mini from their Subterranean Terrors box set.  

As for the WOTC D&D Minis line, I just don't do plastic and this common, uncommon, rare booster distribution is a WOTC money pit even worse than Warhammer.  And plastic minis just don't feel the same next to all my metal minis; plus I think the paint jobs are subpar.  I would heartily recommend Dwarven Forge products, though.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:42 am 
 

Hah! Gold-plated promo miniature ... only 25 boxes... now, that's a pretty cool avatar!


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:00 am 
 

Oh yes, I have a flyer for the gold mini contest in one of my grenadier sets. I remember now.


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