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Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 4:01 am 
 

I am quoting Frank from the GenCom thread Gen Con Anyone?? to start a new one:

Deadlord36 wrote:Shit, those are easily worth that. The only surprising price to me is the woodgrain and the R2.
You can't tell me that the R's (besides 1-4 of course) aren't worth as much if not more than Tamoachan or Inverness, etc. They're infinitely rarer. Ask yourself this: Have you ever seen one, or even seen one for sale? $1,000 apiece is easily what they should fetch, and I think someone got a great deal at $3,000/$600/$700. I have always thought the Acaeum values were abysmally low, considering rarity. The sole reason I wouldn't touch them is the same as the prepub R's, way too easy to counterfeit.


Then, collecting R5-10 is indefinitely more difficult, as you could only buy them from a totally reliable and trustworthy source. A well-known collector or an ex-TSR employee, for example. Wouldn't it make sense to register these modules like with the mono C1/C2? I guess, they were not numbered, though.

So we are safe to assume these tournament modules are the most difficult to obtain and the easiest to forge AD&D modules? How ironic ...


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:51 am 
 

I would say yes on both counts. Even if they were numbered, an unscrupulous person could copy one and sell it, and hang on to the original.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:32 pm 
 

It is gonna happen, guys. I am surprised that we haven't had a copy of one the super rares yet?!

Those R modules would be extremely easy to copy as they were printed more closely to how things are done today. The holy trinity were basically type written and photocopied and they have a "unique" feel to them. Still, not out of the realm of possibility.

And anyone with a copy machine that can do 11x17 can copy Jade Hare. It would be simple...too damn simple.

I am with dead on this one. I just will not purchase one without at least being able to inspect it up close. So, I have to agree on the price at Gencon...the buyer could inspect them and lay his money down knowing he fully believed in their authenticity, as well as the auction staff.

Of course, those auction bozos are not exactly ... uh ... brain surgeons.

The stories I could tell you...


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:
Of course, those auction bozos are not exactly ... uh ... brain surgeons.

The stories I could tell you...


Cool, I want to hear some bozo stories  :D



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Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:58 am 
 

bbarsh wrote:
Of course, those auction bozos are not exactly ... uh ... brain surgeons.

The stories I could tell you...


Hear hear, stories please!!!! No names need be mentioned....

I attended an auction once where Pools of Radiance was auctioned as "The first TSR computer game ever released".  Ahhh, not exactly.  The same auction saw a copy of Cthulhu Deities/Demigods as "The rarest D&D item ever released".  

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:12 pm 
 

I attended an auction once where Pools of Radiance was auctioned as "The first TSR computer game ever released"


Ok, I'll bite.  What was the first TSR computer game ever released?  (I sorta thought it was Pool of Radiance...) 8O

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:09 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:
I attended an auction once where Pools of Radiance was auctioned as "The first TSR computer game ever released"


Ok, I'll bite.  What was the first TSR computer game ever released?  (I sorta thought it was Pool of Radiance...) 8O


Are we including the Intellivision cartridges such as Treasure of Tarmin?  
Was Pool of Radiance not the first for a PC?  I remember playing a couple of those old SSI gold boxes on a Commodore 64.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:15 pm 
 

What about The Minotaur's Treasure or some such?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:27 pm 
 

As far as we know the 1st TSR computer game was "Theseus and the Minotaur" c.1982.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:40 pm 
 

burntwire wrote:As far as we know the 1st TSR computer game was "Theseus and the Minotaur" c.1982.


A gold star to Burnie.  It is very rare because according to Frank Mentzer it was recalled (or didn't sell very well) due to excessive bugginess.  TSR also released a couple others I seem to remember, I have them all but they are in storage so I don't have the names.  I think they are scifi or wargames?  Anyway, when I told said auctioneers the above info they just looked at me like I had three eyes and immediately dismissed my claims, saying as far as they knew Pools of Radiance was the first TSR computer game ever released.  Granted, it is an obscure point, but it was still misrepresentation of the product due to sloppy research.

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:54 pm 
 

Shawn, Devon, you don't have more info on the winner(s) of the R5-R10 modules? Who was auctioning the modules? Did the auctioneer give additional information on the modules?


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:52 pm 
 

Ralf Toth wrote:Shawn, Devon, you don't have more info on the winner(s) of the R5-R10 modules? Who was auctioning the modules? Did the auctioneer give additional information on the modules?


Sorry, don't know anything about the buyer except that he looked to be in his 30's. Frank Mentzer always auctions the Rare items. They were Franks copies and the story is that TSR was going to produce them in the "R" series of modules but backed out, but they were used as RPGA Tourneys at some point.

Hope this helps,
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:05 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:


Of course, those auction bozos are not exactly ... uh ... brain surgeons.

The stories I could tell you...


Hear hear, stories please!!!! No names need be mentioned....


I attended an auction once where Pools of Radiance was auctioned as "The first TSR computer game ever released". Ahhh, not exactly. The same auction saw a copy of Cthulhu Deities/Demigods as "The rarest D&D item ever released".

Mike B.



I really don't like to talk about people who aren't in the same room, but ...

...I'll start off at the Gencon auctions in the early 80's since that is when I first started going. They were honest and fair, and even fun. Collecting wasn't very popular and the heavy dollar items were in the $100 range, so there wasn't so much focus or serioiusness!?

There was a flat fee to add stuff to the auction and everything went smoothly...then came late 80s...and greed set it.

All of a sudden the auction began charging a percent commission on sales as well an entry fee. Big dollar sales were increasing and so did the eyes of our esteemed auctioneers (how can I get a slice of that pie!).

I also noticed that the auctioneers were all collectors, or so it seemed. Now all of sudden items that were submitted for auction were sold, but somehow they would go very cheap, relative to similar items. I am not gonna call out specifics, but I had a few items, just a few mind you, that sold way under market value for the time. Could have been bad luck, poor timing, whatever. I didn't think too much of it at the time. I was not present when said items sold... or maybe I was...

Several of my friends who also sold games regularly at Gencon auctions noticed the same thing. No real big deal, but strange. Then, I think around Gencon 1992, I am talking to a "retired" auction staffer and what does he tell me? Our beloved auctioneers and staff members are buying items on the side after the auction closes for the day! What the fuck is that. They pay a modest price, as if the item were actually auctioned, but actually, the item never made it to the floor. They get a sweet deal, and the seller hasn't a clue. Again, I am not naming names for two reasons: 1) I can't, and 2) it wouldn't be fair to malign someone who can't defend themselves.

Then there came the grading...or lack thereof. Several of the same auctioneers would routinely degrade items simply because they hated the product or thought it was stupid. Yeah, that's fair to the seller. I can see ebay sending you email saying your an idiot for bidding on that item!  Their job was to sell the items placed in their care, not ridicule them.

I am not even gonna get into the smugness these clowns exuded. No, not everyone. But several of these guys were just plain self-absorbed assholes. Several are so-called, big name TSR guys. No wonder that company crashed the way it did.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:21 am 
 

That is quite possibly illegal.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:48 am 
 

Howdy,


Deadlord36 wrote:That is quite possibly illegal.


In '99 I was at GenCon and saw a pair of 1981 Basic sets and Expert sets in shrinkwrap. I told the auctioneer that I wanted to bid on them and asked when they would come up. Inevitably they got pushed down the roster as other goofy charity auctions came up. Finally, the last night of bidding I asked if they were EVER going to come up for bid. They said, they couldn't find them and decided that all four must have been auctioned off. I had never left the auction! Mike Cox of the Dragon's Trove demanded that the guys from Little Soldier Games or The Grenadier (?) of CA, the auction processors, search for the item. They had no record of them and had to be  goaded into bothering to look for them. Only two of them turned up (and only after I helped them search) in the unsold section at the back of the place obviously hidden under some other board game boxes. The other pair had "disappeared". Man I was PO'd - I had hung around that stupid auction hall until 2-3 in the morning waiting to bid on them and they never came up.

I finally did bid and win both but they went for more than they should have ($50 ea.) because there were only two real bidders. If both sets had been auctioned it would never have escalated.

To this day I think it was the auctioneer or the guys from The Little Grenadier (?) who bought it on the sly or just plain stole it. Whom, I really feel sorry for is the poor guy who entered the items into the auction in the first place!


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:21 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:bbarsh wrote:

Then there came the grading...or lack thereof.


I was also a victim of bad grading.  Many times the item was described a certain way by the auctioneer but when I got it, it was in much worse condition.

Then I remember another time, after a rather active day of buying, I went to check out and get my stuff.  The guy goes and gets the items and returns and begins pulling off the auction slips ringing up the total.  As he gets to one of the last items, he pulls off the auction slip and with it comes a part of the book's cover!!!  Good thing it was the only book in that lot I didn't need!!!  8O



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Post Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:57 pm 
 

At that con, you should always be a buyer, and never a seller.  If you want to sell, do so on the floor via booth.  And as a buyer, be personally certain of an item's condition before escalating your bid beyond your comfort level - otherwise assume the item is in fair condition.  These measures shouldn't be necessary at a professional venue, but there, they are.  I will say no more.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:18 pm 
 

It is a shame - no, downright crime - to see what has happened to the the Gencon auction. It used to be an event in itself.

If I wasn't playing an event or checking out the dealer hall, I was at the auction. It was the meeting place for me and my friends, as we often split up to play different events. It was a lunch location, etc...

Then, like I said, around 1990 +/-, they destroyed it. The auctioneers were self-absorbed idiots, the help (moslty their inbred teenage children) were equally moronic and absolutely apethetic or openly laughed at the attendees (so do I, but at least I am a gamer!).

And I firmly believe there was criminal activity as well as unethical activity. The auction "stuff" was always placed on the stage behind the auctioneers and you could see some prime stuff...but somehow...no matter how long you waited, it never showed up???

Money definately corrupted the auction, and that is a shame. Because for me, the auction was as big a part of the convention as anything else. Where else could you grab some obscure game, read the rules until 3 a.m. and play it until dawn?


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:14 pm 
 

darkseraphim wrote:At that con, you should always be a buyer, and never a seller.  If you want to sell, do so on the floor via booth.  And as a buyer, be personally certain of an item's condition before escalating your bid beyond your comfort level - otherwise assume the item is in fair condition.  These measures shouldn't be necessary at a professional venue, but there, they are.  I will say no more.


The problem at the GenCon Auctions is entirely the fault of the Auctioneers...quality varies from year to year.  If they wanted to do it right, they should get a professional service to run the auctions professionally and not half-ass. In the mid-90's a friend of mine went to Gen Con and brought several items of his to auction off.  After watching the quality of the auctions, he decided to hang onto his stuff rather than have it suffer the haphazard treatment he was noticing, and was able to retrieve it from the auctioneers.  He also confirmed a few things you guys mentioned in your earlier posts just from keeping his eyes open and buddying up to some of the auctioneers after hours.  
  Since then I've never let my items be auctioned unless I was personally attending the auction.  Many times the auctioneers have regretted having me attend, because I will loudly point out factual errors, sometimes destroying their spiel.  When buying I also always ask to examine boxed sets that are open or similar items (counters, etc).  Usually the auctioneers are very accomodating...but just as often they accept stuff as is and have no clue if the items are complete, I would say close to 50% of the stuff I look through is missing a map, handout, etc.  I would never assume a boxed set is complete unless looking through it first...many auction items are sold "as is", and typically the guys running the auction can't even take the time to look at the back of the box and make sure everything is inside!
    A couple of other mistakes I've witnessed:
   Bid on a set of comics billed as "A complete set of TSR comics from DC".  It included the Forgotten Realms, AD&D, and Dragonlance series, indeed complete runs....but no Spelljammer, I guess they didn't know this was also a TSR comic.
    During one auction the auctioneer went on a long spiel about how hard to find, rare, etc the old Rogues Gallery supplement (1980) version was, that this "special version" even included stats for characters such as Mordenkained and Bigby!  He went on and on about how hard to find and rare it was, about how it was 20 years old, blah blah...then proceded to auction THREE of them off in a row.  I kept resisting an urge to shout out "And I've got five more at home for anyone else who wants one!"

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:25 pm 
 

Ah yes, brother Badmike. Welcome to the fold! :P


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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