My loss is your gain

Posts: 541 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:50 pm

Here are a few websites with their own grading system so check it out: http://dragonstrove.com/grades.html http://nobleknight.com/MiscellaneousPages/ConditionDescriptions.Asp The following below is one from Hitpointe. SW = Shrinkwrapped (a new item) MT = Mint (new condition, without shrinkwrap) NM = Near-Mint (basically mint, with one or two minor flaws) EX = Excellent (more than two minor flaws, but still very nice) VG = Very-Good (some noticible wear or flaws; not a showpiece, but looks decent) GD = Good (a well-used copy, worn but not "beat-up") FR = Fair (heavily worn or "beat-up", but still intact and playable) PR = Poor (very "beat-up" or damaged, torn, taped, etc. Still playable, but not pretty) Hope that helps. Now a problem with most grading systems is for example, what if an item is in mint condition but has a name written inside? Would you called it Mint WITH Writing or would you automatically drop the grade down to like VG, etc??

Posts: 541 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:58 pm

Below are two more grading systems I found in some old NG auction posts. Both bear similarities. I'm still awaiting to hear peoples opinions on items that are in wonderful condition but the inside is bad. Do you treat it the same or ?? Mint - Unopened and never used/No problems Near Mint - Possibly opened and reshrunk/No problems (Or it was in shrink and I personally opened it) Excellent - No problems (without looking very close)/No longer in shrink Very Good - Some slight problem, maybe some slight wear, but nothing major and probably minor. Good - Perhaps a few minor problems (like maybe a nick, marks, etc), might have some wear but not too much, no major problems. Fair - Complete item, has a fair amount of wear, probably a few problems. Poor - Probably pretty shitty, but complete unless I say otherwise. SW In the original shrinkwrap. M Mint condition, basically a perfect copy. NM Near mint condition, some very minor flaws keep it from being mint. EX Excellent condition. A very nice collectible copy, with slight wear, or maybe a small tear. VG Very good condition. A solid copy with some wear or minor tears. Still collectible. G Good condition. Your basic play copy. Possible heavy wear or some tears, but complete. F Fair condition. Several major flaws, very heavy wear or tears. Still complete but well loved! P Poor condition - Your basic beat copy, possible missing parts, falling apart.

Posts: 297 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:42 pm

Damn... Now I know how those guys who work on the middle east peace process feel... Just when there's Peace, someone up and starts it all over again! Wink

Okay, how about this... let's start a NEW thread and not make it about one guy's grading (poor, good or otherwise) and make it more objective... otherwise we run the danger of this becoming alt.acaeum.flamewars. Laughing

I do think it's a worthy discussion (standards for grading though) For what that's worth. -Jon

Posts: 191 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:10 pm

Adam Shultz wrote:

<<snip>> Can the condition of a gaming collectable be considered Near Mint if it has been folded in half with grease spots? I would think NM should have no more than one or 2 minor blemishes with a tiny pinhole being the more extreme allowable blemish much less 2 other substantial defects. I might grade this item as EX (Excellent) at best. <<snip>>

I tend to agree with you about the grading; however, grading is often subjective, and since Paul has been forthright about the defects in the modules he's selling it's hard to be critical. Grading is subjective; while a list of defects is objective and you should bid based on the latter if at all possible.

Posts: 675 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:16 pm

In my opinion, the best way to judge the condition of an item is to look at the picture(s) provided. If there aren't pictures then “buyer beware” since the rating of an items condition is quite subjective as dcs has also indicated. As far as the condition on the outside vs. the inside, I would recommend rating each separately, just to be thorough and fair to the prospective buyers (The rating being relevant to the physical condition, not the poor quality of the product, as is the case with some non-TSR products;). With respect to the name being written on the inside of an item that would be otherwise M my two cents would be: M-exterior, EX-interior, only due to the signature being written on the inside. Some might disagree, thus provide a picture, or pictures, and a disclaimer indicating that this is your opinion not necessarily everyone elses. Here's how I classify an items condition: Like New, Mint (M) - Usually shrink-wrapped unless it was not originally, near perfect condition. Note SW does not mean M! SW can be removed but item should be bagged and boarded if applicable. Near Mint (NM) - Never used, but might show some slight shelf-wear. Excellent (EX) - Shows wear, but not much. No stains. Maybe a name (of previous owner) in pencil or pen. Sometimes a perforated page will be separated, but it will be included. Sometimes a little bit of staple rust, but not much. Very Good (VG) - Shows wear, but is fully usable. Maybe age discoloration, maybe some pencil marks from previous owner. More cover wear, often a perforated page is separated but included. Good (G) - Shows a fair amount of use. Complete and usable, but previous owner left his imprint. Poor (P) - Probably missing parts and/or shows considerable wear. Unpunched (UP) - For items with cardboard counters, this rating indicates that the pieces are still in their original cardboard sheets. Some could be "hanging" but not completely separated. The game has probably not been played (could be difficult without the counters). Punched (PU) - For items with cardboard counters. Some or all of the counters have been punched out of the cardboard sheet. The game has usually been played. Counted (CT) - For items with counters or other small components, this rating indicates that all pieces are present or specifically mentioned as missing. Collector's Quality (CQ) - This item is complete, unmarked, and in at least EX condition. All NM and M items are also CQ, but not all EX items are CQ, since some EX items might have minor writing or a separated page. Hope this helps!

Posts: 541 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:33 pm

There definitely should be a grading system for the inside contents. For example a person name in pen on the inside of the book should be marked excellent with pen marks. NM/Ex+pen Near mint denotes the outside cover while the ex denotes the inside and states that there are pen marks.

Posts: 577 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:53 pm

dcs wrote:

I tend to agree with you about the grading; however, grading is often subjective, and since Paul has been forthright about the defects in the modules he's selling it's hard to be critical. Grading is subjective; while a list of defects is objective and you should bid based on the latter if at all possible.

Hi David- What makes it tough as a prospective buyer is wondering if the other items listed as NM have similar defects or not if no additional information is available in the description. Sometimes a picture on the internet is not good enough to see these details. The buyer relies heavily on description and condition grading. A little research of the sellers auctions can give you a decent idea of their grading standards. Grading is definitely a subjective art, but there is a pretty obvious difference between lets say MT (Mint) items and (VG) Very Good items. Another downside to loose grading is the difference bidders are willing to pay for better condition items vs. lesser quality items. If I know an item is not up to par grading wise I can assume someone else with a little more cash might believe it is as advertised. Kinda a bummer when you have wanted one of those items for some time. Later. Adam

Posts: 672 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:42 am

Hi all, I just found out the hard way that not everybody on ebay knows how to list, grade or give full accountability of their items. I just recieved a Lot of D&D items which I spent $52.00 on. The lot included - "the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's guide (1st edition), the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide (2nd edition), the Oriental Adventures Handbook (1st edition), the Monster Manual (4th edition cover for 1st edition), the Complete Ranger's Handbook (2nd edition), the Creature Catalog from the Dungeons and Dragons Challenger Series, Volume's 1 and 2 of the Magic Encyclopedia (softback cover), the Monstrous Compendium volume's 1 and 2 and the Forgotten Realms Appendix (with 3 ring binder), and finally 5 modules ranging from 1st levels to upper levels (NOT PICTURED)(Against the Cult of the Reptile God, Temple of Elemental Evil, etc.). It is important for any buyer to know that these books have been used to play D&D for many years and show their age. For example, the top part of the binding of the Oriental Adventures book is torn, the 1st edition Player's Handbook's and Dungeon Master's Guide's covers are worn, and all of the modules are in ok to poor shape." - Now the modules were I4, I10, N1, C1, and T1-4. When I saw the T1-4 I did not mind spending the $52 for the lot. I new that I would be splitting up the lot and reselling it on ebay to recoup the money spent getting the T1-4. But when I received the lot I discovered that the ToEE was a COMPLETE #@!##$ Evil or Very Mad

photocopy

%$%*&^% and did not even include the maps!! I am tracking so many items on ebay that I cannot email everyone with questions on their auctions but when they state - "all of the modules are in ok to poor shape." that would indicate that they are ORIGINALS not COPIES!!! So now that I'm done venting I've just got two words to say about auctions and item condition.....TOTAL DISCLOSURE!! By the way the lady that sold me that auction bitched me out when I gave her a negative feed back reguarding the photocopy....Duh!

Posts: 541 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:20 pm

That really had to stink! Definitely the seller is at fault for not saying in the auction that the T1-4 is a photocopy! Also I think it was doug that mentioned that its best to judge the item by its picture. Well in some cases it is like if the seller has large scans of the item. Sometimes some sellers have small little pictures in which case its hard to note any defects.

Posts: 580 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:18 pm

I bought a collection on Ebay a while back. All modules, they were described as Good or better. What the seller neglected to mention was that he had neatly trimmed the spines off the modules, punched holes in them, and put them into ring binders. Cheers, Malcom

Posts: 541 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 5:40 pm

That shows you guys, be very cautious when bidding on auctions with no pictures!! I tend to avoid auctions with no pictures unless I know the person or have had dealings with the person selling the particular item.

Posts: 41 · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 9:07 pm

Wow That T1-4 thing would suck! I think I would have to call my Credit Card Company and cancel payment on grounds of items being misrepresented, and not what was claimed when I made the purchase. Shocked

bet that would get their attention. I want to thank all of you for teaching me through your own misfortunes, about being careful. I suffer as a person who was originaly planning on just stepping out of my old items and selling them outright. Now I find that I am enjoying this and I fear I may have another addiction it may be this collecting thing, where I am begining to want to sellmy current items to try to get more items of smae of better condition and value. I fear I am doomed. LOL My downfall to e-bay currently is that i am new to selling and I think many are not willing to take a chance and bid on my items due to no rating. So I have been going to extreme care to get very good quality pics of my items. Now I am warned that I should be careful with that so I have gone to copywriting my images so that they can not be used by others to sell their items. This mans careful placement so they can not use them by just trimming the copywrite. I am actually having to place them in strategic places on the image. Wow the dishinesty I see on E-bay is quite amazing to me in some circumstances.

Posts: 41 · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 9:09 pm

Sorry All I loaded my avatar, and it was the size of the whole page I had to redo it so that is how this post go there too. If anyone wants an Avatar, I have experience with these things and message boards so let me know I will try to help you out. As I am in charge of the avatar section on an Outdoor Message Board. ( please have an onage for me to work with, as the images i have on the other board are all outdoor sports related, and all of my work is copywrited that I use for my own.)