Good starting points for Cthulhu?

Posts: 1200 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:07 am

I never got around to picking up Creature Companion but love the Malleus Monstrorum.

Just got my copy of Pelgrane Press Trail of Cthulhu this morning.

Very attractive hardcover that appears to be laid out very well. Lots of Cthulooey goodness! Very Happy

Posts: 1117 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:14 am

I haven't gotten around to picking up Malleus yet. I tend to put off items that are still in print -- at which point they go out of print and I start kicking myself. Laughing

Post a review of Trail once you're through reading it, if you don't mind. It was sold out back when I placed my order during Chaosium's Fool's sale, so I didn't manage to pick up a copy.

Posts: 2938 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:52 pm

When was CC issued? The title doesn't ring a strong bell for me....

Posts: 1200 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:58 pm

According to the database at Yog-Sothoth.com it was released in 1998.

http://www.yog-sothoth.com/cocdbdetail.php?ID=249

Posts: 1117 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:10 pm

grodog wrote:

When was CC issued? The title doesn't ring a strong bell for me....

Jason's got the date right.

CC is essentially a single-volume (with expansion) version of the older Ye Book of Monstres volumes. It was billed as a "core book for Keepers", but they didn't seem to have kept it in print all that long. (Not surprising, given it was published in the midst of their financial woes.)

If you're just collecting for playability, then you don't need it if you have Malleus -- which is a greatly expanded version of it.

Posts: 1200 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:34 pm

I have not been watching the price of them on eBay but Aaron has one in his store for $65.00 Shocked

http://tinyurl.com/4xmowe

Posts: 406 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:51 pm

CC has just recently failed to sell twice at £20 in the UK. I've seen it on Amazon for as high as $160! Last one I snagged cost me £13, if I recall correctly and I think I sold it for £19.99.

Posts: 406 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:55 pm

Ah yes, totally wrong on those figures. I bought it for $15.85 and flogged it for $24.

Posts: 1117 · Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:04 pm

jasonw1239 wrote:

I have not been watching the price of them on eBay but Aaron has one in his store for $65.00 Shocked

http://tinyurl.com/4xmowe

senorcoo's copy has been sitting around at the same price for a while, and there are a few in eBay stores for $75 and > $100. I don't know if I've ever seen them actually sell for that much though, hence why I was curious as to what other people have paid.

megnelwil wrote:

Ah yes, totally wrong on those figures. I bought it for $15.85 and flogged it for $24.

In the $20 range (give or take a bit) seems to be about on par with what I've seen.

Posts: 406 · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:44 am

Then again, $65 with 2 days to go.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360042131252
relisted from:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360039919688

Posts: 1117 · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:40 am

megnelwil wrote:

Then again, $65 with 2 days to go.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360042131252
relisted from:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360039919688

senorcoo has his own special prices for Cthulhu though. Sometimes I wonder how many of his CoC items he actually sells, given that I constantly see him relisting them at slightly lower prices.

And the bidder is the one I mentioned a few posts back, who seems to have a "want it NOW" mentality. Wish I had some spare Cthulhu stuff to offer him. Laughing

Posts: 4549 · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:49 am

I'm having fun reading through the Monographs I purchased....just for reference, here are some keepers I have found so far:

Undying Leaders (Jason, so far this is definitely one of the best I've paged through)
Cthulhu Invictus
The Abbey
The Pastores
The Big Book of Cults
The Casting Call of Cthulhu
The Gaslight Equipment Catalog
Ramblings of a Twisted Mind

Some I've disliked or couldn't use:
First Book of Things
End Time
Strange Tales of Dread & Wonder #2
Raising Up
Caligo Accedendum Tournament
Terror
Christmas in Kingsport
Mysteries of Hungary
Mythos Magic

Still a huge pile to sort through.....lots of fun to have this much CoC material to read, it's getting me interested in running a game again for the first time in over 10 years!

For the most part, the monos are a good deal....sure, the production values are low, but I think that lends a very cool authenticity to the item, as the construction of the item itself (even the taped spine versions) is very sturdy, and the "look" of the items is about as good as some of the cheaper 3rd party CoC items out there. Some of the worst of the monos are terribly edited and put together; some feature scenarios that aren't even good for use in a tournament. Some of the best have very useful information or scenarios that can easily be placed into a campaign.

My only problem would be, if you were buying these blindly, there is about a 50/50 chance you get a keeper or a stinker. Now, the stinkers you can easily resell on the secondary market (I've listed the ones I didn't like on Ebay at a markup, and already sold a couple), but if I paid full price for some of these (instead of getting them for a discount on the April 1st sale) I would be heartily disappointed.

I think some of these could be highly collectible in the future, when/if Chaosium ever stops reprinting them. The are as good (or better, in the case of my list of keepers) as a lot of the 3rd party stuff that came out the last 25 years.

Mike B.

Posts: 1200 · Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:49 am

Thanks Mike! Very Happy

Hope you have a chance to read through the scenarios in Undying Leaders. My regular group of players found them quite interesting (of course they could just be saying that to avoid another TPK).

On the most recent Chaosium newsletter they announced that the Mysteries of Monaco is being released as one of their full version "Secrets of" supplements. Not sure if down the road that will increase the value of the original Monaco monograph, but it has potential.

Posts: 1200 · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:17 am

Trail of Cthulhu written by Kenneth Hite and published by Pelgrane Press

First impressions by Jason Williams

The book itself is a very solid, well bound hardcover that looks sturdy enough to last through many gaming session. The spine is well constructed and unlike some other recent hardcovers for Call of Cthulhu I would not be afraid to open this one up to place it on a photocopier/scanner. (edit: to copy character sheets and handouts).

The layout and artwork is very impressive and with a well laid out table of contents and excellent index it is very easy to locate information quickly.

Probably the most exciting thing about this system is that it directly addresses two of the main weaknesses in the BRP Call of Cthulhu system. The first of which is the problem where if an investigator misses a roll for a clue, the adventure is stalled until the keeper can figure out another way to present the clue. The Gumshoe rules that this game is based on places the emphasis on figuring out the clues and how to apply them, rather than locating the clues. The mechanics for this is very well detailed. The second weakness that is addressed is the recurring questions from players of "why would I keep looking for these monsters/cultists?" ToC introduces what they call "Drives" for the investigators with each explained in enough detail that a player can decide what direction to take their character. Some of the Drives listed are Thirst for Knowledge, Revenge, Antiquarianism, Duty, Curiosity, etc. A total of fourteen Drives are listed covering any motivation that the players might want to give their investigators.

Each entry in the book uses small symbols with optional rules for keeper if they want to use either a traditional setting or ramp it up to a more "pulp" version of the game. An example of this is in the skills section is where the Physics skill in a pulp version of the game can be used to figure out advanced alien technology. In the career section an investigator with the Clergy profession in a pulp game can perform what they term psychological triage, bless holy water, turn vampires with a cross, exorcise demons (but not mythos entities).

Another mechanic that is addressed is the issue of uneven starting skills for players. In BRP it is tied into how well you roll on your EDU and INT but with the ToC system, each player receives the same amount of starting points to apply to their skills. At the end of an adventure, there is no roll to see if skills increase, instead a flat number of points are awarded that the player can apply. There are also mechanics for a player to redistribute skill points in a logical manner (My photography skill went down since I have been spending so much time in the library, but my library use went up).

Trail of Cthulhu also introduces a mechanic that differentiates between long term sanity and what they call stability. During an adventure stability fluctuates depending on events and critters sighted. There is a box on the character sheet to track this from -12 to +15. I have not completely read this section yet.

I am still figuring out the combat system and other mechanics of ToC, but it looks like everything is based on a type of resistance roll of player vs. npc/monster using a D6.

Example stats for a Deep One:
Abilities (on land/in water)
Athletics 8/12, Health 9, Scuffling 8/12, Weapons 6/4

Hit Threshold: 4/5
Alertness Modifier: +0/+1
Stealth Modifier: +0/+1
Weapon: +1 (claw), +1 (trident)
Armor: -1 vs any (scales and skin)
Stability Loss: +0

The listing for each monster also lists the evidence and clues that they tend to leave behind.

There is also some very useful, but brief, information on the 1930's with short write-ups about many countries that the investigators might travel to along with a paragraph of two to explain what relationship it has to the Cthulhu Mythos. In the Peru section there is information about a cult in the mountain gorges around Cuzco and Machu Picchu.

I am not sure if I will switch my current CoC campaign over to this system since the players and myself are so used to the Chaosim BRP system, but it does look like it addresses many of the complaints about the CoC game mechanics that have been debated over the years.

Over the next few weeks, when I have a chance, I may have the opportunity to provide more information.

Posts: 1117 · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:59 am

Thanks, Jason.

Looks like I'll be picking this up, even if I only wind up using some of the extra details. (I like the bit about describing standard clues for monsters to leave behind.)

On an unrelated note, I'm sure by now you've heard that there are going to be official third-party CoC supplements again. I've had no experience with the publisher (Super Genius Games), but an interesting development.

Posts: 1200 · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:30 am

There was a post on yog-sothoth.com this morning by Keith Herber (doccthulhu).

He indicated that he has been talking with Charlie Krank and is exploring the idea of starting a small publishing house to print CoC related materials under license. For old-school fans the possibility of Keith Herber getting back into the CoC world is quite exciting!

http://www.yog-sothoth.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=12 546

Posts: 1117 · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:33 am

I really need to register at Yog-Sothoth one of these days. Laughing

But I'll definitely echo Herber's "(!??!)" given that the animosity between Herber and Chaosium was practically legendary.

Posts: 2938 · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:59 am

Jason: do you by chance also have Hite's Nightmares of Mine book on running horror games? If so, any idea if there's any content overlap with ToC?

Posts: 1200 · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:00 am

Sorry Allan, ToC is the only thing from Hite that I have ever picked up.

Posts: 406 · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:49 pm

Thanks for the review Jason, my copy of TOC arrived today and I've had a quick flick through. Nice production, miles beyond the usual HB offerings, up there with Eyes Only. I scored TOC, Dark Ages, Malleus, Japan, Secrets of LA and Gaslight Equipment mono all for $125 which meant free shipping too. And I didn't have to wait an age for it. Have to take my hat off to Chaosium for a super deal.