DM Guide 2nd Print Beta question

Posts: 51 · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:34 am

Hi, I was wondering whether someone could verify some information on some other incarnations of the 2nd Print Beta.

I recently picked up a DM Guide, 232 pages, with the text block stitched too far in to the point that there is virtually no gutter and much of the text begins to disappear in that area in virtually every page of the book. (I don't see any staples). However, the end-papers are white and not orange as the listing here on the Acaeum mentions. It also doesn't appear there's any end-paper that was pasted over, though I'm not exactly sure if I should be looking for two end-paper sheets pasted together. I also don't see much slant to the text on pages 98/99, though I do see it on 111 heading upward starting from the top of the page in the spine area to the edge of the page.

Has anyone else seen a 2nd Beta similar to this?

Thanks,

Mike.

Posts: 5905 · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:32 pm

I do not believe that you have a 2nd print Beta, despite the angled text on page 99. There must be yet another variation in the printing sequence that has not yet been fully identified. Here is an auction on Ebayfor a 2nd Print Beta right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180226422616&s sPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008

Look at the one picture where it clear shows the pasted endpapers:

Hope that helps. Smile

Posts: 51 · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:00 am

Thanks for letting me know. I see what you mean on the endpapers now. I sent a PM to Paul to see if he's interested in taking a look at some photos of it. I'm wondering if it's more in line with a 3rd print, but I don't have anything to reference it to.

By the way, that 1st print Monster Manual I bought from you on Ebay about a month back...I meant to ask you, what was the story behind that one? Had you bought that one originally or did you pick that up from another collector? There are some pages in there that are printed at an angle/too far to the edge. Did a lot of those 1st prints have that printing problem?

Mike.

Posts: 2635 · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:34 pm

Is there a reason we don't think this is simply a 4th? It sounds very much like one to me. The "third print" hasn't been conclusively shown to exist...anyway, pictures would be good.

Posts: 2635 · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:22 pm

misterspock wrote:

slant to the text on pages...on 111 heading upward starting from the top of the page in the spine area to the edge of the page.

I'm finally home with my books and away from the beach. Back to work! Very Happy

The slant you noted is not unique to one printing, nor to that page...but good eyes! I find it easier to detect on pages 112 or 113, the middle pages of the signature. It's really handy to have a copy of the book without a cover or stitching for things like this! Laughing

A good ruler will note a few mm of difference on several pages, but surprisingly not every page in the 8-sheet signature (pp. 97-128). To my eye, only pages 105 to 120, the middle 4 sheets, are affected, the rest being normal or so slight as not to be detectable.

The slant is present in these printings:
1st, 4th, 6th, 7th
(if anybody can confirm the 2nd alpha and 5th as well, that'd be swell. I don't have one but I strongly suspect the slant is present.)

The slant is not present in these:
2nd beta (no surprise, as this is one of the "replaced" pages...)
9th plus (new cover design)

Where it gets interesting is that one of my 8th printings shows the slant; one does not. So it's clear when they fixed the slant -- sometime in 1980-81. It also means that we could have an 8th alpha/beta distinction (old cover, 238 pages, white flyleaves, no survey form, with/without slant), but I doubt anybody cares overly much about this minor point. It's interesting, though.

Posts: 51 · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:01 am

Thanks for checking that out. I did notice the slant or rotation going through some of the other versions I have, like you said, in the 1st print, whereas I don't see it in an 8th print. It was probably a quality control problem.

Anyways, here are the photos of this other version (I sent them to Paul to take a look at, too):

This is a 232 page book
Credit to Todd Oleck on Title Page
No ISBN on back cover or spine
TSR address on spine
White endpapers
For some reason there's very little to no gutter (maybe again a QC problem).

Posts: 2635 · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:21 am

Please feel around the sides of your book's spine where it indents (or check visually on the inside of the cover front or back) for the presence of two or three metal staples. They're not as big as those found on the "2nd beta", incidentally. These staples are not easy to find, so if you have a sensitive magnet or stud finder it would help.

Based on the photos, I'm almost positive this is a 4th printing. Wink