Ebay policy changes

Posts: 2016 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:11 pm

Crap, Ebay just changed fees and feedback policies. Fees skyrocket!! Buyers only can get positive feedback.

Ebay Sucks

http://pages.ebay.com/sell/update08/rewards/

http://pages.ebay.com/sell/update08/basic/

How can we sell properly now, combined fees between paypal and Ebay are around 17% now Shocked

Posts: 4685 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:46 pm

Hmmm. I am going to list the rest of what I was going to sell in lots, and/or sell it privately, then I am done with eBay selling. The fees are a joke now, especially when combined with the Gaypal rape fees.

Posts: 1021 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:50 pm

Blackmoor wrote:

Buyers only can get positive feedback.

What?

Posts: 2612 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:02 pm

Blackmoor wrote:

Buyers only can get positive feedback.

Oh, the farce continues ... eBay tilts the playing field even more in the favor of the buyer. Rolling Eyes

+++++

Overall, there's some interesting things happening, though. After reading Bill Cobb's long note:

http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200801.shtml#2008-01-29054823

... there's a lot for all of us to think about (especially those of us who sell more than buy). It's worth a read.

There's also some nice anti-Cougar stuff in there, worthy of its own thread.

Posts: 1021 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:23 pm

On the other hand, this item:

"We will remove, not just de-score, negative and neutral feedback when a buyer doesn't respond to the Unpaid Item process"

tilts the playing field towards those who know how to game the system. So instead of seeing the complaints (justified or non-), you just know that the feedback was removed. Sad

Posts: 658 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:40 pm

g026r wrote:

On the other hand, this item:

"We will remove, not just de-score, negative and neutral feedback when a buyer doesn't respond to the Unpaid Item process"

tilts the playing field towards those who know how to game the system. So instead of seeing the complaints (justified or non-), you just know that the feedback was removed. Sad

Do I err

or this policy is already in force? By the way, leaving Postive feedback to buyers or none at all is absolute, utter crap! Mad

I was hit recently by a couple of morons leaving Negative feedback for me (they didn't bother to read my ters & Conditions and left be a Negative for being 'slow') so I hit them back. They left a scar on my DSwhatever table, however.

About MoneyRapePal, I'ìm already on the process of removing it from all my Italian listings (the far bigger part of my listings now). I leave to buyers the option of using it IF they are willing to refund the fees. If not, they are free to use another payment system (eBay Italy, in the true liberal and free market way we all know, decided to FORBID PayPal's most dangerous competitor - the Post Office rechargable card called Postepay - for 'security reasons'...). That's all.

Posts: 2612 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:43 pm

Now that I'm over my shock of seeing the new "never say anything bad about buyers" feedback policy (which is really just the Amazon policy that's been in place since that site allowed users to sell items), I must admit that there is some really interesting stuff in those announcements.

I'd recommend that all interested parties here (especially sellers) read Bill Cobb's note and also the one directly above it.

It's nice, for example, to see the DSRs (the orange stars) finally begin to mean something. And the 12-month rolling score for feedback percentage is a welcome change. As far as reduced listing fees ... well, we'll have to see how that goes once all the final math is calculated. And there's lots of Powerseller announcements ... anyone here who has Powerseller status should probably read every word of those messages.

Posts: 1021 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:59 pm

Alexander1968 wrote:

Do I err

or this policy is already in force?

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I interpret it as follows:

Under the old/current policy, unpaid item notifications cause the rating to be withdrawn, but the comment still stays.
Under the new policy, the comment will be removed as well. All that will be there to show that it was removed will an increment to the feedback mutually withdrawn count.

Posts: 5851 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:09 pm

g026r wrote:

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I interpret it as follows:

Under the old/current policy, unpaid item notifications cause the rating to be withdrawn, but the comment still stays.
Under the new policy, the comment will be removed as well. All that will be there to show that it was removed will an increment to the feedback mutually withdrawn count.

The key to this again is if and only if the buyer doesn't not respond to the NPB. He can repsond to the NPB and say, "Go shit in your hat seller" and Ebay won't remove the negative comment left by the buyer. Its only if the NPB gets completely ignored.

Posts: 5851 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:41 pm

[rant]

To note, the thing I find really funny about all of this is the fact Ebay keeps taking about how they are looking to reward Power Sellers for thier "great customer service", yet they neglect to mention that Ebay as a company has perhaps the worst customer service of all time. Its almost non-existant and yet they continue to jack up fees again and again with really nothing given in return for it. Just were exactly are my increased fees all going to be going? I mean other than the corporate execs pockets, as its certainly not going towards any meaningful service provisions from them. Its a joke.

The fact that they are one of the largest corporations in the world today and do not have a customer call center of really any sort, makes it so pathetic its almost laughable.

[/rant]

Posts: 1181 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:45 pm

Well, this just blows my sack, seeing as I just now started to try and sell things. Oh well. Guess I'll have to try a different way.

Posts: 2612 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:56 pm

serleran wrote:

Oh well. Guess I'll have to try a different way.

I wouldn't give up on eBay just yet ... it has some strengths that other sites just can't match.

OTOH, it also has some weaknesses, the most blatant of which is a playing field that is ridiculously tilted in the buyer's favor. Which is ironic, considering it's sellers who pay all the fees, every time. Confused

eBay will always be the place to go (for now, at least) for large or mixed lots. But for single items, there's other opportunities. Amazon springs to mind ... with the additional irony that eBay's new feedback changes make its system almost completely Amazon-esque.

I'm taking all of my book, CD, and DVD listings to Amazon, effective immediately (I've dabbled with them before, but I've only made like 30 total sales). Those items, in fact, tend to sell quicker and for more money on Amazon, anyway. As for gaming items, those have a far greater chance for success on eBay, so I won't be closing my account there anytime soon.

Posts: 1192 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:02 pm

Gallery pictures are now free, which is the way it should always have been. Making the site easier for buyers to find what they are looking for will result in increased bids. Good thing they finally figured that out.
The increased final value fees will obliterate any savings from listing fees. That huge jump is hard to justify. And only being able to leave positive feedback for buyers is going to lead to less willingness among trigger-happy buyers to work things out with sellers.

Posts: 1192 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:05 pm

I've always sold my books, CDs and DVDs on half.com rather than Amazon (or eBay). The last time I looked, which was a while ago, half.com had better fee rates, though probably less site traffic than Amazon. Any thoughts?

I've always sold gaming items on eBay, but perhaps Amazon could be good for old RPG items too. The ones I've seen for sale on Amazon have very high markups, do they actually sell?

Posts: 2612 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:15 pm

VermilionFire wrote:

Any thoughts?

I did Half for quite a while, too ... maybe I'll see how dusty my account has become over there.

Is it still tied in with eBay? Do the feedback scores still count at both places? That would be something to consider for those of us with established eBay accounts and non-established Amazon reputations.

I just remembered why I left Half, actually. It was a few years ago, when eBay announced it would be closing Half and migrating all the listings to the regular eBay site. And, then, weeks later, they completely reversed their stance, but they had already generated an enormous amount of ill will by that point. I also wasn't impressed that such a large company just basically couldn't seem to make up its mind.

However, that being said, it is an interesting site and well worth investigating for any sellers who have books, CDs, DVDs, video games, etc., that they want to list at a flat BIN-type price.

Posts: 1192 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:23 pm

Half.com and eBay feedback are still one and the same. I remember that incident a few years ago when eBay said they were going to close half.com and sellers would have to migrate to eBay or have their accounts shut down. I guess there were a lot of sellers who just ignored eBay's "threats" like I did and never migrated. eBay must seen the numbers of half.com sellers who would not budge and eBay blinked.
My memory comparing half.com to Amazon is that both took 15% of the sale with no listing fee ever, but that Amazon also tacked on a flat fee for each sale as well. Don't know if that's still true but that's why I never bothered with Amazon to sell stuff back then and stuck with half.com.

Posts: 517 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:08 pm

Quote:

OTOH, it also has some weaknesses, the most blatant of which is a playing field that is ridiculously tilted in the buyer's favor. Which is ironic, considering it's sellers who pay all the fees, every time.

While I don't agree with this sentiment entirely, it is nevertheless true that it makes sense for eBay, on the margin, to focus on the buyer.

Given that buyers are very fickle, the biggest challenge facing eBay is making sure people buy stuff on their site. If they start to lose their customer base, then eBay's success can quickly derail. After all, one of things that makes eBay great is not customer service or anything like that, but the scale of people using it. These network effects are critical.

On the other hand, sellers are not nearly as sensitive. eBay knows that if they offer sellers the best game in town (i.e. largest consumer base), then the vast majority will put up with slightly higher fees. Besides, some of these costs will be passed onto buyers in the form of higher initial prices, less timely customer service, refusal to use paypal, fewer shipping options, etc.

From a practical perspective, the effect of these changes is probably just equalizing the returns for online/offline businesses. Just anecdotal evidence from conversation around here -- with respect to gaming, at least -- seems to show that online stores have had it great for a while, while brick and mortars stores are out. Given the alternatives, I can't imagine very many sellers wanting to give up selling their wares on eBay over an extra few % on sales.

Again, I don't think it is entirely one-sided. But eBay holds more leverage over sellers than buyers, and so it should not be a surprise when they do choose to side with the latter.

Posts: 1021 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:52 pm

I just thought of something: what's going to happen to the seller ability to block buyers based on negative feedback within the past X days? Or feedback below 0?

I mean, if you can't leave negatives or neutrals for buyers...

Christ, I barely sell, and even I think only leaving positives for buyers is a poorly thought out.

Posts: 4262 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:28 pm

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:

While I don't agree with this sentiment entirely, it is nevertheless true that it makes sense for eBay, on the margin, to focus on the buyer.

Given that buyers are very fickle, the biggest challenge facing eBay is making sure people buy stuff on their site. If they start to lose their customer base, then eBay's success can quickly derail. After all, one of things that makes eBay great is not customer service or anything like that, but the scale of people using it. These network effects are critical.

On the other hand, sellers are not nearly as sensitive. eBay knows that if they offer sellers the best game in town (i.e. largest consumer base), then the vast majority will put up with slightly higher fees. Besides, some of these costs will be passed onto buyers in the form of higher initial prices, less timely customer service, refusal to use paypal, fewer shipping options, etc.

From a practical perspective, the effect of these changes is probably just equalizing the returns for online/offline businesses. Just anecdotal evidence from conversation around here -- with respect to gaming, at least -- seems to show that online stores have had it great for a while, while brick and mortars stores are out. Given the alternatives, I can't imagine very many sellers wanting to give up selling their wares on eBay over an extra few % on sales.

Again, I don't think it is entirely one-sided. But eBay holds more leverage over sellers than buyers, and so it should not be a surprise when they do choose to side with the latter.

The reason Ebay is in the toilet isn't because of sellers...it's because of buyers, specifically buyers who have been ripped off, or are scared of being ripped off, and won't do business with the site anymore. So it only stands to reason to make buyers experience more bulletproof and less upsetting.

Not that I agree with this, being mainly a seller, but I realize the sentiment behind the moves. They are rewarding their most established sellers, kicking their worst sellers in the nuts (hello, Cougie, who might go out of business a lot quicker now), and pretty much telling the buyer they are going to make them untouchable.

Unfortunately, as in the incident I am involved in with an idiot buyer, it's going to be the seller who pays the price for all the Cougars, Creeps and other shitheads...basically, because idiots like this were allowed to flourish, we (all sellers) are going to pay the price. It makes it even more necessary that we keep a nicely updated bad buyers list here in the Acaeum; the more unscrupulous buyers here will attempt to take advantage of the rules in their favor by ripping off as many sellers as they can. The only way to fight back is to block their ass premptively.

As STS says, the sellers can be treated however Ebay wants...we aren't going anywhere. Selling gaming items on Amazon is a joke. Some books and CDs might do better there, but for those of us mainly selling gaming items, it really isn't a very good alternative.

I do like some of the new policies. Some were a long time in coming. But giving the buyer too much power (they basically even have power on whether or not you will get a discounted final value fees price, since they can affect that by leaving you less than five stars) may come back to haunt them if sellers decide they have better things to do than kiss the ass of some shithead who makes demands and then threatens to leave them bad feedback, with no reprucussions. I'm toying with the idea of making insurance mandatory on all orders just to cover the one or two idiots that will crop us saying their packages are lost or damaged, knowing you will have to pay the price or they can screw you.

Mike B.

Posts: 96 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:32 pm

Well I'm mostly a buyer but I have a sneaking suspicion that I like the feedback change. It should put paid to feedback retaliation and hopefully curb some of Cougar's antics.