Ebay policy changes

Posts: 377 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:07 am

Badmike wrote:

For those that missed it, Ebay is pissing on you once again. As of October, they will be setting MAXIMUM shipping amounts in some categories. If this maximum shipping does NOT cover costs.....well, tough luck dude. Part of their continuing campaign to drive smaller sellers off ebay for good.
The maximum shipping charges for books are $4, for Cds are $3, which means you can no longer ship these items only by priority mail, even if the buyer desires you do so, it has to be a option along with the cheaper price. Handling and supply charges (for example, charging extra for a padded envelope) are essentially forbidden at this point in these categories. Essentially, for example, I can no longer sell records because I insist on a priority box to protect the item, not simply a hard envelope.

As of October, checks and money orders are no longer allowed on Ebay.

As of November, Sellers with DSRs lower than 4.3 will not be allowed to sell or relist on ebay.

And thus it begins....... Evil or Very Mad

Mike B.

This maximum shipping cost thing is because ebay doesn't get a taste of the money for shipping. What they want is a fixed price auction where the seller pays a percentage for the total sale including shipping.

My own experiment with free shipping proved to me that at this point most buyers don't look at shipping when they bid. The fact that I've been getting between a 4.8 and 4.9 DSR for shipping costs which have been Free, has also made me reconsider free shipping. I now charge a small shipping fee and can offer combined shipping.

Now this DSR thing. According to ebay a 4 rating is Good. Yet they are saying that a 4.3 rating will get you kicked off ebay.

Posts: 5867 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:26 am

Badmike wrote:

Not to mention that their stock flirted with their all time low today, and has all week. I swear on my life I have never seen a better example of a company trying to destroy itself than Ebay the last 12 months. Incredible.

Mike B.

I am completely at a loss as to what to say. It's like just when you think Ebay can't get any more dumb and that thye have hit rock bottom, they just keep digging. Well whatever, all this bullshit is why I have done my absolute best to not sell anything on it anymore, its become a joke and as a result I have only listed 1 set of auctions in pretty much the last 5 months.

Ebay has pretty much become the poster child for corporate arrogance and greed and it eventually is going to bite them square on the ass. It seems to be on the way now much sooner than later and it sure will be fun to see it happen.

Posts: 7604 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:27 am

agreed, lets hope it all plummets fast, then something actually worthwhile can take its place and be what ebay SHOULD have been.

Al

Posts: 377 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:42 am

killjoy32 wrote:

agreed, lets hope it all plummets fast, then something actually worthwhile can take its place and be what ebay SHOULD have been.

Al

I'd like to see it break up into smaller auction sites that specialize. How ebay doesn't qulify as a monopoly I don't know.

Posts: 2611 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:31 pm

Badmike wrote:

For those that missed it, Ebay is pissing on you once again. As of October, they will be setting MAXIMUM shipping amounts in some categories. If this maximum shipping does NOT cover costs.....well, tough luck dude. Part of their continuing campaign to drive smaller sellers off ebay for good.

I can't believe some of my eBay predictions are actually coming true. Smile

I've been wondering for years when they would get around to doing this.

The problem, of course, is that it's eBay ... so, by definition, they've taken a pretty easy idea and screwed it up. A "shipping cap" is not, on the surface, a bad idea. It's worked just fine for years over at Amazon (technically, sellers are reimbursed at Amazon, but the principle is close enough for this discussion), and it's yet another blow to idiots and thieves like Cougie, who have seen their bag of tricks pretty much emptied in the past year or so (I'll give eBay credit for that much; they've done a lot to hurt the CougTards of the world).

But, as usual, eBay's "one-size-fits-all" approach pretty much assumes two things:

1. All sellers are the same;

2. All sellers, if they aren't regulated to death, will be like Cougar.

Add to that the completely insulting (and transparently greedy) attitude of "Hey, sellers, you should just offer free shipping anyway!" and you've got a nice recipe for disaster.

Plus, as mentioned, there are times when flexibility is a good thing. Valuable media-related items probably should be shipped Priority, which is more sturdy, offers free delivery confirmation, and gets the item to the buyer much sooner. Hell, many buyers want their stuff sooner, and are happy to pay $5 for a quick, reliable form of shipping that has a much greater chance of protecting their first-edition book or whatever.

The sub-text here is interesting: eBay understands it is getting clobbered by Amazon in all media-related categories. Sellers who list a fair amount of media items, like myself, have left eBay in stampedes and aren't coming back (I personally have not paid a penny of eBay/PayPal fees since February). Their solution appears to be "let's just be like Amazon." Which, of course, fails to recognize that the companies have more differences than similarities. Square peg, meet round hole.

JasonZavoda wrote:

Now this DSR thing. According to ebay a 4 rating is Good. Yet they are saying that a 4.3 rating will get you kicked off ebay.

This puzzles me, as well. It's like eBay has some sort of weird schizophrenia about the DSR concept ... or it's like half of their employees didn't get the memo or something. Is a 4 "good" or not? It depends on who is doing the asking and who is doing the answering. It also depends far too much on buyers who have not been educated well enough about the concept (or who, frankly, just don't care) and, as established in previous uproars, actually see a screen that basically says "4 is good!"

One interesting sidebar: as of right now, Cougar is at a 4.3 in the "shipping and handling charges" category. If that falls by even a tenth, then the Karma Missile will have well and truly landed. Can you imagine? After all the years we've begged eBay to throw that thief out, and then he basically does it to himself? Oh, irony, you funny bitch! Smile

Badmike wrote:

Not to mention that their stock flirted with their all time low today, and has all week.

eBay stock prices for the last three months, courtesy of the New York Times:

Headed straight for the teens ... amazing. I fully expect my son will be studying eBay in his college business classes. The topic will be "American Business Disasters."

Posts: 939 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:10 pm

Aren't Amazon Marketplace fees higher than Half.com (owned by Ebay)?

"Amazon.com collects your sales price and shipping costs from the buyer, deducts a commission of 6 to 15 percent of the sales price, a per-transaction fee of $0.99, and a variable closing fee." Books and CDs have a 15% commission rate & a set $1.35 "variable closing fee".

So, for each book that $2.34 + 15% of sale price - whereas Half is only 15% of sale price. Amazon does have many more old or obscure books listed that are not found on Half (you can't list on Half without a preset entry). Also, on Half.com you get to use your Ebay feedback, whereas starting new on Amazon you are back to zero.

Posts: 1104 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:13 pm

I'm trying to puzzle out why neutrals no longer count against the feedback rating.

All they're doing is forcing further polarization of feedback: positive or negative, no point in neutrals. (After all, how many actually look at feedback and how many just glance at the numbers?) I know that I recently left a neutral that would have been a negative had I known it was still going to show up as the seller being a perfect dealer. Rolling Eyes

Posts: 2611 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:18 pm

There's advantages to each. The feedback one is important, for sure ... my Amazon feedback, for example is like 29. And, for whatever reason, a significant amount of Amazon deals are completed without the buyers even bothering to leave feedback at all.

Amazon's shipping reimbursements are more than fair, which helps to off-set some of the fees. For virtually every item I've sold, I've actually pocketed a bit of profit in shipping.

I would encourage interested sellers to try both. They are similar in a lot of ways, but different enough to warrant investigation.

Posts: 578 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:22 pm

Hi,

actually, my biggest gripe on Ebay is those sellers who rip you off for postage.

So maximum postage charges seems quite good to me.

But then, I mainly buy, not sell.

Cheers,
Malc

Posts: 377 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:58 pm

g026r wrote:

I'm trying to puzzle out why neutrals no longer count against the feedback rating.

All they're doing is forcing further polarization of feedback: positive or negative, no point in neutrals. (After all, how many actually look at feedback and how many just glance at the numbers?) I know that I recently left a neutral that would have been a negative had I known it was still going to show up as the seller being a perfect dealer. Rolling Eyes

What would be useful would be able to click on the negative or neutral feedback score and see the comments without having to wade through pages and pages (when you're dealing with a big seller).

Posts: 1104 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:01 pm

You can currently do that with the UK site, so one can only assume that it will be making its way to the other sites eventually given their usual status as new features guinea pigs.

(Until then, changing the URL from ebay.com to ebay.co.uk lets you check them out via the feedback page.)

Posts: 80 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:07 pm

I don't have much of an opinion yet about the changes, but I think one thing is being overlooked:

Xaxaxe wrote:

Plus, as mentioned, there are times when flexibility is a good thing. Valuable media-related items probably should be shipped Priority, which is more sturdy, offers free delivery confirmation, and gets the item to the buyer much sooner. Hell, many buyers want their stuff sooner, and are happy to pay $5 for a quick, reliable form of shipping that has a much greater chance of protecting their first-edition book or whatever.

eBay still allows for that:

"These maximums apply to the first flat-rate shipping service within or into the U.S. Sellers are required to offer at least one shipping option within the maximum and may also offer other options above the maximums for expedited or international shipping."

From here:
http://pages.ebay.com/sell/August2008Update/ConfidentBuyers/

So I don't see why you'd be precluded from also offering a higher-cost shipping method that's costlier because uses more materials to protect the product. You just have to include at least one shipping method that's cheap too.

Posts: 4449 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:12 pm

Afraid of the Dark wrote:

I don't have much of an opinion yet about the changes, but I think one thing is being overlooked:

eBay still allows for that:

"These maximums apply to the first flat-rate shipping service within or into the U.S. Sellers are required to offer at least one shipping option within the maximum and may also offer other options above the maximums for expedited or international shipping."

From here:
http://pages.ebay.com/sell/August2008Update/ConfidentBuyers/

So I don't see why you'd be precluded from also offering a higher-cost shipping method that's costlier because uses more materials to protect the product. You just have to include at least one shipping method that's cheap too.

AOTD is correct. And I've been working out a spiel that will suggest just that to my ebay buyers, WITHOUT violating their injunctions. For example, I have a large record collection I'm going to be selling soon. I ship in priority boxes to avoid damage. The reimbursment for records will be $3. I will continue to ship in priority boxes, offering that as a "speedy alternative" to media mail. Here is an example snippet:

"I will ship record albums by priority or media mail Priority shipping will be in a well padded priority box and I will guarantee it's condition up to a full refund if it does not arrive in the condition it was listed. Media mail shipments of record albums will be in a plain paper non-padded envelope and will take up to three weeks to arrive; thus I CANNOT guarantee it will arrive in the same condition it is sent or indeed in any sort of playable condition. Thanks!"

I plan on doing one of those for my more valuable/collectible hardbacks also. The great thing about Ebay, it's like out-thinking a herd of emus or something to do what you want anyway.

Mike B.

Posts: 80 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:17 pm

Out of curiosity, how do I see a seller's (most importantly: my) numerical DSR.

On my My World page and my feedback profile page, I see the partially-filled stars, but I don't see a way to get the actual numbers.

One thing I'm concerned about is that a buyer of two items can take a perfect DSR of a new seller, and (accidentally or vindictively) make it drop below the 4.3 threshold, thus preventing the seller from selling for up to a year.

I suppose that's what the appeals process is for, but I'm in a more fragile state.

I'm only an occasional seller, with 11 DSR ratings total. Right now my shipping and handling is rated just over 4.5.

I knowingly brought that onto myself when I sold my last batch of stuff, and I even mentioned the fact that I wasn't willing to compromise on slow shipping in the auction descriptions purely for my own convenience. After all:

a) As an occasional seller of niche stuff, the DSR-based list orderings aren't particularly relevant to me, and

b) Inferior ordering was the only drawback for my actions.

Now I'm potentially being retroactively punished for my actions. That's kind of like changing the speed limit on Friday from 60 to 50 mph and then giving me a speeding ticket for last Monday when I was (at that point legally) driving at 55 mph.

Posts: 4449 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:17 pm

lawrenson wrote:

Hi,

actually, my biggest gripe on Ebay is those sellers who rip you off for postage.

So maximum postage charges seems quite good to me.

But then, I mainly buy, not sell.

Cheers,
Malc

Malc, the problem I see is that you really aren't paying cheaper prices. Ebay specifically states to just move the shipping/handling charges straight to your sale price. All this changes is that ebay will be making more money as right now they get no piece of shipping costs, only FVF costs. So, instead of a SW M5 for $40 and $6 shipping, you'll be getting it for $47 with $3 shipping. The new policy doesn't make anything cheaper, quite the opposite.

Honestly, I'm not going to make a dollar less, and neither will a lot of online retailers. Look at what Titan games prices have done with their "free" shipping......raised their prices across the board.

Even worse, the shipping decree specifically leaves out international buyers, so if you buy something from the US the same price gouging will be in effect.

Mike B.

Posts: 4449 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:22 pm

Afraid of the Dark wrote:

Out of curiosity, how do I see a seller's (most importantly: my) numerical DSR.

On my My World page and my feedback profile page, I see the partially-filled stars, but I don't see a way to get the actual numbers.

One thing I'm concerned about is that a buyer of two items can take a perfect DSR of a new seller, and (accidentally or vindictively) make it drop below the 4.3 threshold, thus preventing the seller from selling for up to a year.

I suppose that's what the appeals process is for, but I'm in a more fragile state.

I'm only an occasional seller, with 11 DSR ratings total. Right now my shipping and handling is rated just over 4.5.

I knowingly brought that onto myself when I sold my last batch of stuff, and I even mentioned the fact that I wasn't willing to compromise on slow shipping in the auction descriptions purely for my own convenience. After all:

a) As an occasional seller of niche stuff, the DSR-based list orderings aren't particularly relevant to me, and

b) Inferior ordering was the only drawback for my actions.

Now I'm potentially being retroactively punished for my actions. That's kind of like changing the speed limit on Friday from 60 to 50 mph and then giving me a speeding ticket for last Monday when I was (at that point legally) driving at 55 mph.

AOTD, I'd try one of these methods: Sell a large amount of cheap items for the express purpose of pumping up your DSRS (say, a bunch of single plastic WOTC minis, or dice, or single discounted modules, or something you can ship cheap and easily and quickly), and include a plainative plea to give you a "5" on your DSRs if the buyer is happy with your service (which, if they get something cheap and quick, they probably will); or, simply start a new ID when you sell, as I believe "new" sellers are exempt from the rules, and use your other ID for buying only.

Mike B.

Posts: 2437 · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:56 pm

How about saying "In line with eBay's requirement that we provide no protection to the item being shipped, should you select to ship with no protection for $3, we will ship your product 21 days after your PayPal payment has been received."

Or "If you select the zero protection shipping option, we will not accept PayPal payments for this item. We will accept cash only." If you would prefer to pay with PayPal, you are required to pay for suitable shipping for your item."

Posts: 331 · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:50 am

Afraid of the Dark wrote:

Out of curiosity, how do I see a seller's (most importantly: my) numerical DSR.

To see your numbers, go to My Ebay, scroll down the left hand column under "My Account", and click on "Seller Dashboard". Good luck.

Posts: 377 · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:48 am

lucyjoyce wrote:

To see your numbers, go to My Ebay, scroll down the left hand column under "My Account", and click on "Seller Dashboard". Good luck.

For me the numbers show up if the pointers is held over the star, but you can get a look at your averages by going to dashboard.

A 4, according to ebay, means that the buyer was satisfied, so a 4.3 should mean that the average sales rate as 'More than satisfied', not 'Your going to have your seller account suspended'.

Posts: 578 · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:18 am

Badmike wrote:

Malc, the problem I see is that you really aren't paying cheaper prices. Ebay specifically states to just move the shipping/handling charges straight to your sale price. All this changes is that ebay will be making more money as right now they get no piece of shipping costs, only FVF costs. So, instead of a SW M5 for $40 and $6 shipping, you'll be getting it for $47 with $3 shipping. The new policy doesn't make anything cheaper, quite the opposite.
Mike B.

Yes, but thats only for BIN items. Again, I actually buy very few of those - I'm an Auction Boy Very Happy

I always factor in p&p to any bids, but the problem is those sellers who dont list postage, and sting you when they send you a total.

Cheers,
Malc