Ebay policy changes

Posts: 7604 · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:53 pm

Kingofpain89 wrote:

Sellers can still leave responses to bad feedback though cant they? Better than nothing I guess. I also noticed that my feedback score just doubled. Shocked

well i understand what theyve done this for, but i think its kinda stupid. i have good intention when i sell. i dont try and do anything to con/steal or whatever a buyer. but i am a sitting duck to anyone who comes along and is just an unreasonable arse.

this is just ridiculous man

Posts: 851 · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:48 pm

I must admit, I have mixed feelings over the negative feedback thing. As an occasional Seller, of course I worry about the fact that it leaves you open to being intentionally undermined - I hope there is some recourse through Ebay when neg feedback is received for no good reason.

On the other hand, I recently had one of my worst experiences on Ebay. I bought a freezer. The Seller has a good business and 98% positive. However, the Seller failed to deliver for weeks and kept giving me untruthful excuses (he accidentally copied an identical message about his car breaking down on two separate weeks). When the Seller received negative or neutral - he replies instantly with revenge feedback. He has a lot of begrudging positives. So a..holes like that ruin it for everybody and are probably the reason Ebay has made these changes.

It's a pity they couldn't filter out the revenge thing, without such a big change.

Posts: 1141 · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:51 pm

Quote:

Buyers, you can no longer receive negative or neutral Feedback from sellers.

You should leave honest and accurate Feedback without the fear of receiving negative or neutral ratings.

This is the message ebay give you on the feedback entry page - as if the DSR's weren't enough!? I know the feedback system was never perfect but this gives the green light for idiots to be assholes!

Hey-ho!

Posts: 1141 · Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:34 am

Went to leave some non positive feedback(!), and ebay gives me a little tick box list telling me what I should have done!
I asked myself why the f*** should I 'contact the seller to try and find a solution' when the prat has sent me 3 hard backs wrapped up in what is basically a sheet of newspaper.

BUT, I then mailed him to tell him what I was going to do and it gave me cause to pause; and put a hold on leaving feedback. If he responds sharpish in an apologetic or decent way then he may just have kept his 100% record, after all the books were almost unscathed (only by luck) and I'm quite happy with them. So the sellers reaction will decide my future action, and maybe, just maybe, there might be something decent in the feedback system after all Rolling Eyes

Posts: 965 · Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:53 am

gyg wrote:

Went to leave some non positive feedback(!), and ebay gives me a little tick box list telling me what I should have done!
I asked myself why the f*** should I 'contact the seller to try and find a solution' when the prat has sent me 3 hard backs wrapped up in what is basically a sheet of newspaper.

BUT, I then mailed him to tell him what I was going to do and it gave me cause to pause; and put a hold on leaving feedback. If he responds sharpish in an apologetic or decent way then he may just have kept his 100% record, after all the books were almost unscathed (only by luck) and I'm quite happy with them. So the sellers reaction will decide my future action, and maybe, just maybe, there might be something decent in the feedback system after all Rolling Eyes

I've had this happen, if he's been lucky with stuff like that he still gets a positive but is marked down in stars... If he's unlucky he gets neutral/neg, esp if he has overcharged in postage.. but then I'm through with being mister nice guy with people that want to make an extra $1 by skimping on packaging costs... esp when it comes to boxed sets and items you spend $100+ bucks on...

Brette:)

Posts: 2303 · Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:13 am

There is still a solution for sellers.
You can still respond the a negative comment on your own feedback page.
Enter a comment like 'David Whitbread, I tried to call you on 0161 444 1234 to resolve, but you won't answer!?'
EBay will remove the negative comment and give you a warning not to post personal info.

Posts: 7604 · Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:54 am

is it just me, or cant you search for completed items by an individual seller no more?

Posts: 1021 · Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:22 pm

The option's still there for me.

Posts: 7604 · Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:32 pm

could someone else in the UK check?

thanks

Al

*edit* just noticed an interesting thing. dunno if its a glitch or something now...

on my works pc, it doesnt give me the option to search by seller or bidder, yet at home it does

very strange!

Posts: 528 · Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:43 pm

Works for me.

It just doesnt like you any more Al Very Happy

Cheers,
Malc

Posts: 4685 · Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:04 pm

It got tired of him pigeonholing Acaeum bidders. Karma, ya dang Brit!
Al, I don't think you have much to worry about as far as getting dinged by a buyer. You've always been exemplary.

Posts: 1141 · Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:37 pm

gyg wrote:

Went to leave some non positive feedback(!), and ebay gives me a little tick box list telling me what I should have done!
I asked myself why the f*** should I 'contact the seller to try and find a solution' when the prat has sent me 3 hard backs wrapped up in what is basically a sheet of newspaper.

BUT, I then mailed him to tell him what I was going to do and it gave me cause to pause; and put a hold on leaving feedback. If he responds sharpish in an apologetic or decent way then he may just have kept his 100% record, after all the books were almost unscathed (only by luck) and I'm quite happy with them. So the sellers reaction will decide my future action, and maybe, just maybe, there might be something decent in the feedback system after all Rolling Eyes

He got back to me sharpish. Couldn't have been more decent - offered refunds, profuse apologies etc etc - Got the positive with poor shipping DSR - can't say fairer than that then.

Posts: 1021 · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:36 am

One thing I've noticed with their feedback changes: while the total feedback number has often gone up for some sellers, the fact that they now only calculate by one-year periods has resulted in some sellers having their feedback percentage taking a nosedive.

I've seen a few making sudden drops from mid- to high-99% to mid-98%. Ouch.

Posts: 1407 · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:47 am

Deadlord39 wrote:

It got tired of him pigeonholing Acaeum bidders. Karma, ya dang Brit!
Al, I don't think you have much to worry about as far as getting dinged by a buyer. You've always been exemplary.

Yup... Al has always been at the top of the heap as a seller (Buyer too).

The mode of delivery is not (Usually*) a big probem for me as a buyer, more so if the item is damage due to lack of care in packing by the seller.
*Of course, on the other hand I do not enjoy seeing something like an RPG Adventure module shipped in a thin envelope and being bent in half by the postal carrier so that it can be stuffed into the tiny mail box.
In that case, if I thought the seller had packed it in a way that did not comport to safe delivery and the seller would not resond to my questions as to why, then a neg would (IMO) be well justified.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that writting DO NOT BEND on both sides of an envelope is not that big a time consumer and is really worth the small bit of effort expended.

Posts: 2016 · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:35 am

g026r wrote:

One thing I've noticed with their feedback changes: while the total feedback number has often gone up for some sellers, the fact that they now only calculate by one-year periods has resulted in some sellers having their feedback percentage taking a nosedive.

I've seen a few making sudden drops from mid- to high-99% to mid-98%. Ouch.

Mine went from 99.9% to 100% Smile

For now

Posts: 342 · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:03 pm

Aneoth wrote:

Yup... Al has always been at the top of the heap as a seller (Buyer too).

The mode of delivery is not (Usually*) a big probem for me as a buyer, more so if the item is damage due to lack of care in packing by the seller.
*Of course, on the other hand I do not enjoy seeing something like an RPG Adventure module shipped in a thin envelope and being bent in half by the postal carrier so that it can be stuffed into the tiny mail box.
In that case, if I thought the seller had packed it in a way that did not comport to safe delivery and the seller would not resond to my questions as to why, then a neg would (IMO) be well justified.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that writting DO NOT BEND on both sides of an envelope is not that big a time consumer and is really worth the small bit of effort expended.

If only writing do not bend was enough.

If an envelope is used then stiff cardboard needs to be placed inside, stiff enough so that the postalmaniac cannot easily bend the envelope. The reason why some sellers avoid this is because it can change the class of mail to parcel and jam up the postage cost.

I recently purchased 4 Ambush module knock-off scenarios from someone on ebay. I paid enough for a flat rate box but they sent them in a flaty rate envelope, which of course was promptly bent by the carrier. His homebrew Ambush modules (a WWII solo game) comes with thich cardboard sheets to fit into sleeves. An interesting system for using a paragraph system of solo play. The cards were bent. The seller offered to replace everything, but I managed to flatten everything out. I was not pleased so I didn't leave feedback.

I could have left a neg, or damaged his DSR, but why? It has a much harder impact on a seller than some people seem to realize. The guy tried to work a few extra bucks out of the deal which has already cost him my repeat business (which would be a great deal more in profit than he'd ever make skimping on decent shipping). But he tried sincerely to make it right. I'm not slamming someones feedback or especially their DSR when they apologized and tried to make it right. There but for the grace of God goes Rumpole. But I am sensitive to DSR because I sell a lot on ebay. (I've offered free shipping since before the DSR stuff started and I have a 4.8 in shipping costs. It's freakin' free, how can I get slammed on shipping costs when I don't charge any? Because ebays DSR system sucks and you can't please some people (Alms for an ex-leper).

So now, after 11 years on ebay with 99.9 (because 3 non-paying buyers neged me 11 years ago) I finally have the %100 I'm just waiting to get the next neutral or neg from someone, just because they can. I was thinking this morning that the new system is going to beat the hell out of the feedback percentage system (and it means some big bucks to high end powersellers who get a discount for haveing over a 9 Cool

. I can't wait to be done and cleaned out, and to be able to use my den for something other than game storage again (I'm planning a game room that the cats can't get into so maybe I can leave a boardfull of counters or little plastic men up without one of the cats stomping through the board like Godzilla through Tokyo.

Posts: 7604 · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:21 pm

wel its funny you should say that jason, cos i had an instance the other day. perfect for what i was saying.

i sent a guy 2 mods. i dont have to, but i packed them in a jiffy, in a plastic sleeve to protect the mods and then two pieces of thick card, to help keep the parcel firm and then write do not bend on both sides. pretty good job, if i have to say so myself. not only that, i sent the package out 2 days after payment (would have been quicker but work didnt permit the time), still pretty quick imo, as he got it the morning after. he left glowing feedback, but marked my DSRs with "average"
so my ratings temp went from 4.9 to 4.8.

is that fair? i didnt think i offered an average service. without blowing my own trumpet, i felt i offered a damn f-ing great service, not only that, i but i e-mailed him and advised of the parcel being sent too!!!!

now thats what i am on about. i feel that i have been hard done to there and there isnt a damn thing i can do.

his reply to me upon questioning it, was "i just left average, i always do". well no shit sherlock...that really helps things. so my DSR goes down for no real reason at all, because some muppet cant grade things properly!

really p's me off for sure. i wonder sometimes, why i bother making the effort to go an extra yard. oh maybe it was the £0.07 i charged for handling, which covers a brand-new jiffy, materials etc.....hmmm yea i guess i overdid it there

Rolling Eyes

feckin dumbass

needless to say he is blocked now, cant be arsed with it.

Al

Posts: 404 · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:52 pm

You've fallen foul of the main eBay scam Al. eBay knows, because it has been told over and over again by many sellers, the descriptive text beside those stars encourages users to leave 4 stars rather than 5 (or even 3 in the case you mention). 4 stars is considered 'good' with 5 stars reserved for 'excellent'. Most buyers think they are doing you a favour when they leave 4 stars and they probably don't think they are doing much harm even by leaving 3 stars. But eBay knows full well, sellers need as many 5 star ratings as possible to qualify for the sellers' discount. This is why they have deliberately rigged the feedback system. Buyers are mislead and sellers are shafted. The end result is suffering the higher fees all of the time and getting those discounts maybe half the time at best or probably not at all. Perfect if you are on the eBay payroll but pretty tough going if you are trying to make a living as an eBay seller. It's a con, eBay knows it's a con and eBay knows the seller knows it's a con. Just eBay being eBay, greedy as hell and couldn't give a toss about its customers.

I've said all along, eBay should have put a whole lot more effort into helping the user make an informed decision when leaving those star ratings, especially now that money is at stake. But they just rolled the system out, misleading labels and all and expected every buyer to judiciously apply ratings based on actual experience rather than expedience as is quite obviously the case with the buyer you mention. Buyers have zero incentive to use the system properly and attract zero risk if they want to abuse it, just for a laugh or simply because they are lazy. The postage rating is worst of all, you would think eBay could throw up the shipping cost applied so people leaving feedback didn't have to click away and read the item description again. But they left that feature out too. I see this as their go-to rating when they really need to screw a seller on discounts because the perception exists that every seller screws the buyer on shipping. eBay uses this to their advantage. Bottom line, you are dealing with a crooked company and no matter what you do all the power now rests with the buyer and the seller, the guy who actually pays eBay's bills, is the loser. Old ground I know but it's working out just as everyone said.

Console yourself with the fact the buyer is a lazy asshole given an easy out by eBay - but you did the business regardless. I've had plenty of stuff from you, I prefer dealing outside of eBay of course but regardless it has been a 5 star service all the way.

Posts: 89 · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:53 pm

Same with me Killjoy. When I send a module I use a #4 Jiffy bubble mailer, bag AND board the module, and THEN insert an extra cardboard plate (my buddy runs a comic store and they send him these sturdy cardboard plates that I cut down and use to great success) for stiffness. Did I mention I do all this for $3.50?? I think it's extremely reasonable, and I'd happily pay that amount for any module that I bought and was shipped to me the same way.

What I've taken to doing is writing each person a note when I ship the item, and then ask them to leave me all 5s, and if they cannot, just let me know what I can do to earn the 5s. I missed 15% off my fees last month because of a 4.7 shipping time DSR. Sad

So, I'm trying this new method. Let's see how it works out.

Zen

Posts: 2303 · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:16 pm

You know what. I don't generally care whether a seller has 2 stars or four stars. If I want an item I'll buy if from them. If their negative feedback says 'this guy wrapped my woodgrain in brown paper and shipped it in a bag of rocks' and there's a stack of other people leaving similar comments, then I might think twice.

On the whole, I don't think eBay buyers really care much about any of the rating systems. They are looking for a bargain. If you've got the one they want, you get the sale. When it gets closer to market value, or up into the collectables, on the whole you're dealing with intelligent people, and they know not to put too much weight behind rating systems and negative feedback. And if they aren't that intelligent, then maybe you don't want to be selling to them anyways.

Don't worry about all that eBay crap. Put up good product with accurate shipping costs. Pack it as if it was gonna be handled by monkeys (it is!), and ship on time. Business will do just fine.