AGP Announcements and Updates

Posts: 180 · Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:25 pm

There have been a couple of debates on the Necromancer Games boards about PDF. I have been an ardent and vociferous supporter of PDF.

The "watermarking" (personalization) is certainly a deterrent to piracy and is often looked for when PDFs are brought to printers for copies/binding, but is not a guarantee that your material will not be illegally shared. I think it is worth the risk. You likely wouldn't get the revenue from those who will stoop to piracy in the first place. On the other hand I have been surprised by the brazen sellers on eBay and even more surprised by eBay's lack of commitment to do anything about it when I reported it.

I have noticed in my PDF debates that buyers tend to fall into two camps; 1) those who have the print version and want to keep it pristine, using the PDF for actual game play, and 2) those who are interested in small publisher products and are either unwilling to buy print on an unknown or PDF is the only option. I fall into both camps.

I can't say enough about the utility of quality PDF. The ability to search is extremely useful. I love it for my Wilderlands box set. The ability to cut and paste is useful for creating notes, hand outs for table top games, and entering large chunks of text in on-line chat games.

Posts: 3999 · Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:52 pm

Critics of pdf's hate them because they reduce the rarity of their game collections (which is true...to a small extent...but not necessarily critical) and because of the possibility of piracy.

Piracy can happen no matter what.

For a small company like AGP, a presence on RPGNow and DriveThruRPG, as well as ENWorld and many other pdf sites that are springing up can be a source of both publicity and extra cash.

There is a whole community of gamers who are tuned into these sites, and who might check out AGP products if they are offered for sale. Seems like a shame to miss out on it.

I've never heard a gamer say, "Oh, I don't need a hardcopy of that. I've got it on pdf." (Although maybe they do say that and I just wasn't listening.) Mad

Posts: 161 · Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:52 pm

I totally agree, lj.

I purchase PDFs of nearly all of my physical copies for that very reason. I want to keep my originals in good shape. It would be another thing if people were still releasing those original materials, even in an updated form. But stuff that's effectively been abandoned for print? I find it preposterous that people expect someone to destroy history for purposes of use. Imagine if no copies of The Bible were allowed to be made.

Watermarking can be removed from anyone with enough savvy, but just like your house or your car if a professional is looking to rip you off, they are going to get it done; you just lock your doors and windows to keep the casual temptable human deterred.

Posts: 161 · Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:55 pm

FormCritic wrote:

Critics of pdf's hate them because they reduce the rarity of their game collections (which is true...to a small extent...but not necessarily critical)

Rarity of the print version isn't reduced, only the rarity on the information. Information rarity hardly ever controls the pricing on the physical copies of something, and almost never for the long haul. Collectors will collect to collect. Dispersal of information increases the likelihood of there being more collectors thus driving up demand, while supply remains constant.

Posts: 1464 · Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:36 pm

Busman wrote:

Rarity of the print version isn't reduced, only the rarity on the information. Information rarity hardly ever controls the pricing on the physical copies of something, and almost never for the long haul. Collectors will collect to collect. Dispersal of information increases the likelihood of there being more collectors thus driving up demand, while supply remains constant.

Can work both ways, with extremes at either end.

Taking a non-RPG example, I paid £200 in the late 80s for a run of National Geographics from 1930 through 1967 in leather-bound semi-annual volumes (an uncle got me started on those in the mid-70s is my excuse, OK Wink

).
When the DVD came out, the market "value" for those nose-dived to near-zero almost overnight regardless of relative quality of reproduction; whereas the earliest volumes retained most, if not all of their "value".
*
A similar pattern was repeated for Dragon, since those simply weren't rare enough to retain any premium.

Whether any increased value due to greater awareness of a generally unknown /and/ rare item actually outweighs the /previous/ premium being paid by certain individuals after release of any .pdf version is a bit of a turkey shoot to be honest. Smile

02c/ymmv, anyhow.
d.

Posts: 161 · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:50 am

faro wrote:

Can work both ways, with extremes at either end.

Taking a non-RPG example, I paid £200 in the late 80s for a run of National Geographics from 1930 through 1967 in leather-bound semi-annual volumes (an uncle got me started on those in the mid-70s is my excuse, OK Wink

).
When the DVD came out, the market "value" for those nose-dived to near-zero almost overnight regardless of relative quality of reproduction; whereas the earliest volumes retained most, if not all of their "value".
*
A similar pattern was repeated for Dragon, since those simply weren't rare enough to retain any premium.

Whether any increased value due to greater awareness of a generally unknown /and/ rare item actually outweighs the /previous/ premium being paid by certain individuals after release of any .pdf version is a bit of a turkey shoot to be honest. Smile

02c/ymmv, anyhow.
d.

That doesn't surprise me. You were buying reproductions of the originals. I wouldn't be surprised if the originals retained nearly all of their value or went higher. A better reproduction came along and those who were only interested in the information were satisfied. But the actual collectible, the original product is rarely affected in the long run.

Dragon is a good example. Prices did take a nose dive when the CD came out, but since then prices on the truly rare ones has climbed back to equal or higher values than before. I believe that the greater effect on the depression on Dragon pricing is the internet and Ebay. People are aware of just how damned many copies of the later prints there were.

For rare items, exposure of just ho rare they are is almost always an inflater of the price.

Posts: 7612 · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:24 pm

imo, i dont see why there needs to be a PDF of this stuff. its cheap enough to buy a 2nd copy, so why not just get one? that way, james stays in business, HE gets the money and not a middleman, so james gets the net worth and then he can concentrate all the more on working on and releasing more cool stuff.

talking about PDF's of rare stuff has been discussed in other threads on more than a few occasions, always with the same answers.

this stuff is still very much in the mainstream just now, so has no relevance to rare things.

Alan

Posts: 3999 · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:30 pm

Pdf's would increase James' profits, not reduce them. It would be a way to expand his market and make gamers aware of AGP and the Wilderlands...while adding some cash to his account.

I didn't mean to make this a pdf strand.

I just wanted to use my copy without wrecking it.

Posts: 7612 · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:35 pm

FormCritic wrote:

Pdf's would increase James' profits, not reduce them. It would be a way to expand his market and make gamers aware of AGP and the Wilderlands...while adding some cash to his account.

I didn't mean to make this a pdf strand.

I just wanted to use my copy without wrecking it.

point taken mark!

so buy another my friend Very Happy

Al

Posts: 180 · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:11 pm

killjoy32 wrote:

point taken mark!

so buy another my friend

But that does not address this point that I made earlier.

"I can't say enough about the utility of quality PDF. The ability to search is extremely useful. I love it for my Wilderlands box set. The ability to cut and paste is useful for creating notes, hand outs for table top games, and entering large chunks of text in on-line chat games."

This relates to a style of play as much as style of product. The game can be enhanced with technology for those who are so inclined.

Posts: 3188 · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:30 pm

For large items like the Wilderlands box set a PDF with the ability to search has been great, had it just been a scan of the pages then in that example the PDF would have far less of a service to myself.

I think this PDF discussion is not geared towards the old stuff, but rather what gets released now - so they have no rarity at the moment.

Ultimately it comes down to the revenue James can get by offering PDFs or not - he doesn't have to worry about how valuable something may become, only what he can make right now and in the future. The print copies may sell out, but he can always keep selling the PDF.

I personally don't care for PDFs to read, only for them as a quick reference - they save time there.

ShaneG.

Posts: 3999 · Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:35 pm

Since I'm still talking about this...

The demands of running a 3.5 game are really helped by pdf's.

The ability to print out critters to kill the PC's is so key to game mastering in the modern world.

Posts: 404 · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:24 am

I've posted a map of the Wilderlands on the AGP site with notes as to where every "official" Wilderlands module and adventure is located on the map. By "official" I mean "When Judges Guild published the module/adventure, it was placed in the Wilderlands." As with every module and adventure ever published by Judges Guild, the placement is merely a suggestion, not a requirement.

The map includes all adventure modules, Books of Treasure Maps, City States, Wilderness Books, and Pegasus Campaign Installments. It does not include any minor encounters, ruins, or such from the Wilderlands books, nor any such from any of the magazines, as the map would then be INCREDIBLY crowded. I've also included the locations of the three Goodman Games JG modules, which did not have a suggested Wilderlands location in the originals, but were given one in the revised versions.

There is a link to an excel file at the bottom of the map; the excel file includes more information on each location and adventure.

The map ain't pretty; it was only made for my own use really, but it gets the job done.

Posts: 7612 · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:02 am

hey james

fabulous map! however still doesnt show what we talked about *nudge*

still need a map of sorts to do with that.

Al

Posts: 3188 · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:00 am

Great map.

ShaneG.

Posts: 1439 · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:55 am

I am quite sure I am simply not seeing it but is there not some way to order A group of items through PayPal at the same time and to combine shipping costs by doing so?

Is there a way to oder Two or more copies of some items as well?

Posts: 404 · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:12 pm

Aneoth wrote:

I am quite sure I am simply not seeing it but is there not some way to order A group of items through PayPal at the same time and to combine shipping costs by doing so?

Is there a way to oder Two or more copies of some items as well?

Argh. I goofed on this. Originally the product pages simply said "e-mail me about your order at james at adventuregamespubs. dot com." Then folks wanted buttons, and I put up buttons for individual sales, but forgot to include the bit about "e-mail me about ordering multiple or combined copies."

Basically, e-mail me and let me know what you want to order, and I will find the price and combined shipping costs.

I'll see if I can put up an ordering page today or tomorrow. I'm not an HTML wiz, so it might take a while...

Posts: 2523 · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:16 pm

e-mailed you with a bulk order enquiry, James.

Posts: 9 · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:25 pm

Another month has come and gone. Any status update on the AGJ or the Campaign Installment for us subscribers?

Posts: 3999 · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:54 pm

Thanks for the hex maps, James. I was looking for those....and I was happy to see a great price for them on the AGP website.

They arrived a couple of days ago, and I was forced to lecture my two kids on how they fit into gaming history....which they took pretty well considering that I was showing them an evelope full of blank hex maps.