4th Edition Collecting

Posts: 1117 · Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:32 pm

silver_beetle wrote:

What bothers me is that the price is so high compared to the value of the content, and I'm sure that having color printing ON EVERY PAGE contributes to that. I'd much rather have less slick-looking books for a lower price.

It's not WotC, but I wish I could find the thread over on RPG.net where a Steve Jackson Games employee explained the rationale behind the majority of the GURPS Fourth sourcebooks being hardcover with colour pages vs. the softcover B&W format that GURPS 3rd's supplements were in. It pretty much amounted to: "It's what the majority of players surveyed claimed they'd rather have."

Does make it much harder on the wallet though. Sad

Posts: 3999 · Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:46 pm

Deadlord:

IF you're gonna go snag some Gleemax brains, how about snagging a couple for me?

Mark

Posts: 3999 · Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:47 pm

I liked the cover art on the 3.5 Monster Manual the best....although 1st edition is the champion for nostaligic, old-school feel.

I am reserving judgement on 4.0 until I see the rules.

Posts: 1345 · Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:02 pm

Quote:

Deadlord:

IF you're gonna go snag some Gleemax brains, how about snagging a couple for me?

Me, three? Smile

Posts: 2616 · Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:04 pm

I'm seeing a Gleemax brain as the perfect gift for my eight-month-old. He destroys all he comes into contact with.

(Me, four, in other words?)

Posts: 976 · Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:04 pm

Xaxaxe wrote:

I'm seeing a Gleemax brain as the perfect gift for my eight-month-old. He destroys all he comes into contact with.

(Me, four, in other words?)

Great we all have Gleemax on the brain now ... ok me 5 .. I have a dog that likes to chew things ... maybe we should have a photo competition? The best photo showing the destruction of a gleemax brain.

Posts: 1075 · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:56 pm

improvstone wrote:

Great we all have Gleemax on the brain now ... ok me 5

Was Deadlord posting about Gleemax-branded brains or Netgear-branded brains?

Posts: 4716 · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:04 pm

They're Netgears, IIRC. I'll grab as many as I can. The Marketing chick bears a striking resemblance to a Formorian giant, so all I need to do is smile at her and she'll cave in. Or kill me with a club.

Posts: 976 · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:32 pm

Deadlord39 wrote:

Or kill me with a club.

Nah ... she'll just knock you out and drag you back to her cave. Then you really are in trouble Wink

Posts: 413 · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:47 pm

FormCritic wrote:

I liked the cover art on the 3.5 Monster Manual the best....although 1st edition is the champion for nostaligic, old-school feel.

I am reserving judgement on 4.0 until I see the rules.

I'll climb out on a limb and say that 4.0 will suck.

RPGs were games of the imagination. They weren't about slick looks or slick rules, they were about the magic and wonder that pure creativity inspires.

No artists can ever capture the richness and detail of anyone's imagination. They grab a small fragment of the artist's own vision, what they can put down on canvas or on paper or on a computer screen, but a fantasy game can open up an unparalled world, unique and alive, and take the players from around a dinner table and have them walk in that world, fight and laugh and die in that world.

Every edition of AD&D/D&D steps further from that raw source of imagination. More numbers, more rules, more power, but less imagination. Less ease for those who want to stray off the mapboard and out of the rulebook.

RPGs are hard games to run well, but it isn't a matter of rules, new or improved or otherwise. It is a matter of inspriation, and the thought of a 4th edition only inspires me to take out my old game notes and RPGs from twenty or thirty years ago, not shell out money for a slick new hardcover.

Your game experience may vary.

Posts: 2616 · Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:45 am

JasonZavoda wrote:

I'll climb out on a limb and say that 4.0 will suck.

That is going to be one crowded limb ... I hope it doesn't break on us. Smile

4.0 will suck hard. It will be an event horizon from which fun itself cannot escape. You summed up many of the reasons why in your post, so I'll just say, "Good post; I agree."

The suits at Wizards have done me one big favor, though. My complete lack of interest in their latest nonsense has helped to rekindle my interest in ODD/1e, which had been somewhat on the wane this summer.

So ... uh ... thanks, suits!

Posts: 133 · Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:02 pm

One good thing 4E will do is create another temporary upsurge in RPG sales and add a new burst to the industry. That's good news for someone like me who does freelance art on these books and looks forward to times when the companies are actively hiring again.
On a side note, Xaxaxe, what was the original source of your avatar? I love recreations and parodies of classic D&D art.

Posts: 2616 · Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:06 pm

kevin mayle wrote:

On a side note, Xaxaxe, what was the original source of your avatar? I love recreations and parodies of classic D&D art.

That's the blue book cover (obviously), using the characters from the Order of the Stick web-comic. And the characters are even playing their "correct" roles, too (the archer is firing arrows, the wizard is prepping spells, etc.).

The Order of the Stick can be found here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0482.html

Posts: 7612 · Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:32 pm

well i picked up a gleemax brain thing at gencon....does that count as a 4E collectable?

Smile

Al

Posts: 3999 · Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:00 pm

Yeah, it does.

It kind of casts aspersions on my status as the first official 4th edition collector when everyone seems to have a better collection than me. Crying or Very sad

That's me down on 1st avenue with the shakey hands and the wild hair:

"Hey, Buddy! Can you spare a brain?"

Posts: 4542 · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:50 pm

JohnGaunt wrote:

Back to the original topic . . .

Seriously, has anyone picked up any 4E promo material? Any Gleemax (godthatsabadname) swag?

I have a Gleemax rubber brain they were giving away at the booth...

I didn't see any specific 4th ed swag. The line was always so long though at the WOTC site I never bothered to get in it to find out what was being given away.

Mike B.

Posts: 145 · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:57 pm

FormCritic wrote:

I liked the cover art on the 3.5 Monster Manual the best....although 1st edition is the champion for nostaligic, old-school feel.

I am reserving judgement on 4.0 until I see the rules.

FROM WIKIPEDIA: "Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition, announced at GenCon in August of 2007 and on Wizards of the Coast website with a countdown clock, is set to be published in May of 2008. This edition will include, for the first time, internet based content and support for playing over the internet. This edition also boasts character levels going up to 30, more defined character roles "to make sure the party members know their place on the battlefield", easier DM-ing, and expanded online content."

I have mixed feelings about the internet bit. It sounds cool, but what's the point of playing a pen & paper RPG online? One of the big draws for me has always been getting together with friends and family. You just can't replicate the "Pass the cheetos" factor online.

Going to level 30 might be fun, but I wonder how that's gonna look as far as character power at those higher levels. What the heck kind of monster is CR 30?? Shocked

I wonder what they mean be "easier DMing?"

I have heard that the new edition will include character creation programs and DM tools to use on your computer, like they tried (and failed) to set up with 3.0. That would be great if they pull it off this time.

Posts: 976 · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:39 pm

Agent Cooper wrote:

I wonder what they mean be "easier DMing?"

So easy a DM doesn't need to think Wink

Just roll the dice or better yet let the computer roll the dice. And I am sure the online system will have the modules premade. So nothing to do but login and play.

Agent Cooper wrote:

I have heard that the new edition will include character creation programs and DM tools to use on your computer, like they tried (and failed) to set up with 3.0. That would be great if they pull it off this time.

I noticed with their preview of the tools they focused on some nice graphical aspects. Such as changing the character look, stance, lighting etc. My hope is they focus on the usability 1st and if there is time left then focus on the special effects.

Posts: 3999 · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:32 pm

I watched a bit of the WOTC 4th Edition presentation on YouTube.

I suspect that the "easier to DM" part will have to do with several factors:

1) Easing up on the sheer magnitude of rules.

The rules for grappling were specifically sited as bogging down the game, but I suspect other aspects of game play will change.

A few less technical terms would help.

Getting rid of the current crop of splat books would be a big help, even if that only means a momentary respite before the next wave of splat books surges in.

2) An electronic character creation system that allows players to come to the game ready to play.

It would be extra cool if players could store their characters electronically and print them out at any location so there is no "I forgot my character" problem.

3) Electronic tools to help the DM create and manage monsters, including printable monster stats and visuals.

Because monsters in 3rd edition are all decked out like player characters, it is usually not possible to carry stats for every monster in one's head (as many 1st edition players commonly did and still do).

A printable monster, that does not require me to hold my book in my hand, is a huge help...avoiding the wrecked spine and pages that go with this practice. (Hell, just a way to avoid having the players see which book and roughly which page I am holding is what I would look for.)

The monster advancement rules in 3rd edition were brilliant, but they also required a considerable amount of time and DM know-how.

A tool for squishing templates onto monsters would be really useful. (I call a template-altered monster a "squish beast" because it is much like squishing Playdo through one of those Playdo presses I have had fun in the past just squishing template after template onto the same monster to see what the final result looks like...and then use it against the PC's.) Very Happy

4) A tool that racks up likely spell lists for spellcasters would also be really time-saving.

5) I suspect that the online component will also include nifty things like printable dungeon layouts for miniatures and pre-made adventures that a DM could plug in (the downside being that players will surely read these adventures in advance, but certain dork players have always done that).

Simply an enlargement and continuation of things like "map a week" and the downloadable adventures already available would be very nice.

With all of these features available online and easily accessible, I could see the DM's job getting lots easier.

Mark Cool

Posts: 1117 · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:42 pm

Agent Cooper wrote:

Going to level 30 might be fun, but I wonder how that's gonna look as far as character power at those higher levels. What the heck kind of monster is CR 30?? Shocked

Mordiggian (for those familiar with Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique tales). Cthulhu's still a bit out of range though. Wink