NFL Fantasy Football - Acaeum Collectors League

Posts: 5636 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:01 am

Tharizdun wrote:

Emmitt wasn't even in the top 3 all time. Barry S, Jim B, Walter P... then we get into Emmitt territory.
You just said as much... he got lucky and had a great line with HOF QB and Receiver + a great tight end.

You could even make a case for Novacek and Moose Johnston on that prolific o-line during the 90s. However I predict that no one from the o-line will get a nod until a veteran's committee finally looks them over in 20 years. Meanwhile the veteran's committee will continue every year to put in a random east coast team's offensive or defensive lineman just because he was wearing the right uniform. I'm surprised the Steeler's waterboy or the guy who told people where to park at Giant's stadium haven't gotten their induction yet.

Mike B.

Posts: 5636 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:07 am

PaulKM wrote:

Mike, the greatest RB of all time? No, Brown,, Sweetness, Sanders, OJ, Dickerson, Campbell.... I would put Emmit in the four or five slot.

Except Emmitt outgained them all. And had more TDs than all of them. When you base it purely on numbers, he was the best of all time, no argument. Bringing in intangibles lends the process to biases of all sorts. Based purely on stats, the man has the records. And seeing as how the NFL is turning more and more into a 2-3 back attack, Emmitt might hold onto those records a long, long time.

The only ones mentioned I would even consider in the same class as Emmitt are Sanders and Payton. Everyone else is coulda, shoulda, woulda, and DIDNT.

Mike B.

Posts: 482 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:19 am

Jim Brown was an offense. He was a franchise and one of the best players ever. Emmitt wasn't even the best player on his team.

Emmitt has those stats but then when you purely look at stats a bunch of tier 2 guys have really great stats. You yourself made the point that it's a team game when I splained to you how the Lakers have played in 50% of all the NBA finals so you cannot go back and have it both ways...

Posts: 289 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:29 am

Mike,

Sanders gave Emmitt the biggest break of all time by leaving the game (and being stuck on the Lions).

However, yards per carry, shorter season (and career), Jim Brown's numbers are scary--top 3 easy.

My List, Brown, Sanders or Sweetness, then a toss up Emmitt/OJ/Dickerson and Campbell...

Oh and we forgot Sayers and Dorsett, a few guys actually.

But for me, Emmitt is either 4 or 5. Smile

Best,

Paul

Posts: 5636 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:04 am

Tharizdun wrote:

Jim Brown was an offense. He was a franchise and one of the best players ever. Emmitt wasn't even the best player on his team.

Emmitt has those stats but then when you purely look at stats a bunch of tier 2 guys have really great stats. You yourself made the point that it's a team game when I splained to you how the Lakers have played in 50% of all the NBA finals so you cannot go back and have it both ways...

True football is more a team game than basketball. But each team has to have someone that does the heavy lifting. Emmitt was that guy. Aikman truth to tell was an average to above average QB with great ability to play under pressure (great playoff stats, average regular season stats). Irvin was the team leader and always moved the chains when you needed it most, but never amassed gaudy stats. However I would say more than both of them if you had to put a game on a guy's shoulders to win it was Emmitt. He did singlehandedly win one of the greatest games in football history when he ran for 168 yds in the 1993 season finale vs the Giants....with a separated shoulder. Oh and he caught 10 passes that same game. He willed them into OT and then drove them to the game winning FG. He had many games like this his career when they just fed the ball to him. He was a machine that only missed 8 games his entire career with the boys (two of them were holdout games at the beginning of the 1993 season...and they went 0-2 those games, hmmmm).

I saw every single game Emmitt played and I can only guess most non-Cowboy fans only saw the Monday night games or Thanksgiving Day games. Out of all the RBs I have ever watched only Barry Sanders could dictate a game like Emmitt could. I saw plenty of Barry Sanders and he would have had the all-time record had he not quit (btw, another point in his favor, there was no quit in Emmitt). Brown got dicked around by management and had the lure of Hollywood, we'll never know what he might have done because plenty of RBs start off great (LT, Terrell Davis, etc) and get injured or worn down and suddenly are through. I saw Payton a lot and honestly I feel Emmitt was a better RB (Payton did play a couple years on really bad teams that misused him). Dickerson got screwed around by bad coaches so it's debatable what he would have done had he been on a good team without idiot coaches some of his career. OJ was a one trick pony and benefitted from a terrible team where all they did was run the ball 90% of the time. Earl likewise got run into the ground and if he had been handled correctly I think he could have played 5 more years and set a few more records.

Look how hard it is to do what Emmitt (and Sanders and Payton) did. The hot RBs of the last few years....LT, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin...they all had really good numbers and came close but all fell back to earth. Honestly will anyone ever break his records? LT is still 50 TDs behind him! No one is within any distance of the rushing record.

But once again we are with shoulda coulda woulda. Emmitt just did it and has the stats to back him up. Two things in his favor that most people don't take into account: His durability, and the fact he didn't fumble. And don't forget he had 11 consecutive seasons over 1000 yds, the all time record. I know he played behind a great O-line but cmon it wasn't great for 11 years in a row...! As a matter of fact were the Cowboys teams of 1997-2001 even that great? No playoffs and Emmitt was still pounding out 1000 yds a season.

Mike B.

Posts: 482 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:03 am

Barry Sanders could dictate a game... name 4 other players on any one of his Detroit teams. He was a one man show! Emmitt had at least 9 other great players on all his good teams. To be fair I think we can agree that Maybe Barry had 1-2 (if any) at best during his run...

Posts: 1302 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:01 am

Unfortunately I didn't see the game, but my wife did (working nights!) and her comments were that Saints were worthy winners and that if Manning is rated the best QB currently, the others must be arse... Laughing

Not that one game makes a man and all that... Wink

Apparently the Saints QB was on fire and she was shouting at the TV, 'run man, run' following the INT late on!

Glad I've recorded it to watch tonight now.

(Carry on with your discussions of Hall of Famers, as I can't comment on any of those, outside the Vikes team....) Razz

Posts: 440 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:45 am

Looks like misterspock got the closest in predicting the score. Just glad the Saints won. Great game. But the best part to me was after the game - the shot of a teary Brees holding and kissing his tiny son while the celebrations roared around them.

And I am in Emmitt Smith's corner, but am totally biased, as my family is from Pensacola and I was at UF in the 80s watching him break records left and right. He's the man.

Posts: 3414 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:27 am

PaulKM wrote:

I've only owned two professional sports jerseys: The Chicago White Sox and the Saints. Now I have to find two new cursed teams.

Chicago Cubs, Minnesota Vikings, and Buffalo Bills. That should just about cover it. Smile

Posts: 5636 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:07 pm

Kingofpain89 wrote:

Chicago Cubs, Minnesota Vikings, and Buffalo Bills. That should just about cover it. Smile

Throw in the Detroit Lions for the football trifecta......

Mike B.

Posts: 4843 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:08 pm

Emmitt Smith's production stats, and his induction into the Hall of Fame, are great accomplishments of the Cowboys team from the 90's.

There is no way to separate Emmitt from the strongest team of all time....and no reason to do so.

Posts: 482 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:08 pm

49'ers were the strongest team of all time. They had a loooong ass run of greatness Wink

Posts: 4843 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:26 pm

Tharizdun wrote:

49'ers were the strongest team of all time. They had a loooong ass run of greatness Wink

No doubt the 49'ers have been a good franchise.

My point is that the Cowboys Super Bowl teams on which Emmitt Smith had the priviledge to play...particularly the first two...were the strongest NFL teams ever.

Posts: 482 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:34 pm

I think that the Bears team was probably the best single Super Bowl team.

I feel sorry for Martin now Sad

Posts: 3414 · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:45 pm

Best Super Bowl team?

I'm sure there will be a lot of people disagree with me, but if I was gonna pick one it would have to be the '79 Steelers by a hair over the '89 49ers, the '92 Cowboys, and then the '85 Bears. Damn those guys were good.

Posts: 947 · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:07 am

Agree with John. THe 79 Steelers are the best ever superbowl team. Of course they were 'juicing' pretty hard back then.

Martin

Posts: 4843 · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:39 am

The first Cowboys team that won the Super Bowl in the 90's would have wiped the floor with the '79 Steelers.

Not even close.

Posts: 471 · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:53 am

FormCritic wrote:

The first Cowboys team that won the Super Bowl in the 90's would have wiped the floor with the '79 Steelers.

Not even close.

Your love for these Dallas Teams ('92 & '93) is admirable.

But seriously, the monsters of the Midway that was the '85 Bears, would have crushed said Cowboys.

IMHO probably the best defensive team ever put on the field.

Posts: 4843 · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:14 pm

No doubt the '85 Bears would have put up a valiant struggle.

The '85 Bears enjoyed a perfect storm season. The Patriots making the Super Bowl to get squished was typical of the breaks that went the Bears' way. A fluke victory over the Raiders put the Patriots in position to get embarrassed.

The '85 Bears did not face a team with the offensive power of the 1990's Cowboys teams. The '85 Bears were a weak offensive team that relied on turnovers and defensive pressure to keep them in games.

Of course, it is possible that the Cowboys might have blown the game on turnovers. (That's what the Cowboys did against the 49ers in one NFC championship game during that great era. That's why Steve Young got a Super Bowl win.)

If the two teams played seven times I call it 5-2 in favor of the Cowboys...and that's being generous to the Bears.

That was an entire era during which the real Super Bowl was the NFC Championship game.

Posts: 471 · Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:50 pm

FormCritic wrote:

No doubt the '85 Bears would have put up a valiant struggle.

The '85 Bears enjoyed a perfect storm season. The Patriots making the Super Bowl to get squished was typical of the breaks that went the Bears' way. A fluke victory over the Raiders put the Patriots in position to get embarrassed.

The '85 Bears did not face a team with the offensive power of the 1990's Cowboys teams. The '85 Bears were a weak offensive team that relied on turnovers and defensive pressure to keep them in games.

Of course, it is possible that the Cowboys might have blown the game on turnovers. (That's what the Cowboys did against the 49ers in one NFC championship game during that great era. That's why Steve Young got a Super Bowl win.)

If the two teams played seven times I call it 5-2 in favor of the Cowboys...and that's being generous to the Bears.

That was an entire era during which the real Super Bowl was the NFC Championship game.

Agreed. The NFC Championship game was the real Super Bowl back then...

However, I still hold to the fact that the '85 Bears would beat the '92 Cowboys strictly on their defense alone. When they won the coin toss for the Super Bowl game, they chose to put their defense on the field first. Name one other team in Super Bowl history that chose to do that.

That and Payton up the middle, Payton down the left, Payton down the right... Wink

Anyone know of any simulation programs that could put teams from various years against each other?