Early TSR/D&D advertisements & catalogs

Posts: 404 · Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:49 pm

bbarsh wrote:

That only works because you are using today's printing technology as your basis for cost. Back then printing was radically different than how things are done today.

Yes, but the prices were still quite low back then as compared to the numbers you are quoting. I've spoken extensively with Bob Bledsaw about the prices he paid back in the day, and they jibe with the $0.50 figure I quote (for a 64-pager even). Considering it was actually a 32-pager, apparently, it was probably even cheaper.

I suppose this would be a question to ask Gary or maybe Jim at some time; the time frame is too early for Frank, though he could probably give us some baseline numbers, print run and unit cost-wise, for the early GW stuff...

Posts: 2338 · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:51 pm

Does anyone have a copy of this catalog?

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9/jeffbrg22/DD006.jpg

Did it come with this basic set? I don't recall seeing this one before. Its 8 pages. The size almost looks like it might be a UK catalog.

Posts: 943 · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:01 pm

Nice find! I've never seen it. Do you have the actual catalog or just the photo?

Face Logo so it should be 1980-82.

Artwork looks "strange" for TSR. UK is definitely a good guess.

Posts: 2338 · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:54 pm

I just picked it up from this auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220098192573

The auction is in the UK so that might be a give away too but the paper size for the catalog looks a bit longer than rulebook so it might be A4 instead of Letter size. Although from the outside it doesn't look like there is any GW markings. When did GW stop producing D&D stuff? Did TSR UK then become a separate entity at that point?

Posts: 2938 · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:23 am

Ran across this on Jeff Reints' blog via a link @ DF: http://bp3.blogger.com/_lpL870wV2A4/Rikd1ODwpeI/AAAAAAAAAxM/oFyWcVvaje k/s1600-h/ddadomni.jpg

Posts: 943 · Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:05 am

zhowar wrote:

I recently lost this catalog auction to Stormber (I bid $9.99, he won for $10.49). I hadn't seen this one before...it's the March 1981 "The DUNGEON!" catalog rather than the usual 1981 "Gateway" TSR Catalog:

auction text wrote:

auction text wrote:

This auction is for a vg condition Dungeon hobby shop catalog/retail order blank from 1981. I consists of 12 attached pages with descriptions & prices for all sorts of vintage gaming items from 1981- games, modules, minis, dice and more. There are a few penmarks for checked off items and an address in the order blank from the vintage owner of the item. It will really bring back memories for old timers & graybeards. Ideal for the collector, these aren't easy to find.

Has the "The DUNGEON!" logo (adventurers in a cave w/ eyes/mouth)

This auction just ended for $40.97:

auction text wrote:

* TSR Hobbies "Gateway To Adventure" 1981 product catalog (14 color pages featuring D&D modules and accessories, boxed games, and other products)
* Retail Order Blank, dated March 1981, from The Dungeon Hobby Shop in Lake Geneva, WI (24 pages of numerous items available from TSR, Avalon Hill, and other companies)
* Subscription order form for Dragon magazine
* Flyer for GEN CON XIV (August 13-16, 1981)
* 9-1/2" x 12-1/2" mailing envelope from The Dungeon Hobby Shop

So, this has the same "Retail Order Blank", but with twice as many pages (12 versus 24 - unless they were counting double-sided pages?), as well as the extra items. The mailing envelope is an interesting item. The design appears to feature a party roasting hotdogs over a flaming troll! Shocked

Posts: 943 · Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:01 am

I finally picked up a Dungeon Hobby Shop Retail Order Blank (catalog/order forms, dated March 1981) in a recent auction. There are 12 double-sided pages. The complete TSR product line is covered on the first two pages, though there is another page with the World of Greyhawk miniatures from Minifigs.

The illustrated mailing envelope that came with this is similar to the one pictured in my previous post. It features different artwork but with the same adventuring party of five characters. Here they are fighting a giant.

The reverse side has a different picture of a giant who is picking up and shaking the Dungeon Hobby Shop. It is signed "LR" indicating the artwork is by Laura Roslof (spouse of Jim Roslof), who also did some pictures for the original orange B3, including one that was removed ("The Illusion of the Decapus", pg 10) and two that were altered for the green B3. There's a bit more detail on this here.

B3 was the only TSR product that she contributed art for that I was aware of, so it's interesting find that she also illustrated these envelopes. Anybody else have a different one of these envelopes? Also, can anybody describe the picture on the reverse side of the other envelope above (the one with the roasting troll)?

Posts: 2938 · Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:53 am

zhowar wrote:

I finally picked up a Dungeon Hobby Shop Retail Blank (catalog/order forms, dated March 1981) in a recent auction. There are 12 double-sided pages. The complete TSR product line is covered on the first two pages, though there is another page with the World of Greyhawk miniatures from Minifigs.

Any difference from the archive listing @ http://web.archive.org/web/20050205204432/http://users.accesscomm.ca/l mec/fgo_mfwg.htm?

Posts: 603 · Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:37 pm

For what it's worth, I am selling a bunch of old TSR catalogues in this auction as well as other publications for D&D events and items.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110180266595&s sPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=001

There's also these very nice TSR World's publications.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110179641940&s sPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=001

Posts: 943 · Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:00 pm

grodog wrote:

Any difference from the archive listing @ http://web.archive.org/web/20050205204432/http://users.accesscomm.ca/l mec/fgo_mfwg.htm?

The entries in the Retail Order Blank are all the same up through WOG60, which is where the listing stops. However, there is extra information not on that archived list: specifically, each figure is given a World of Greyhawk territory.

For example:

WOG19 Free City Foot, spears, swords, bows Dyvers
WOG54 Wyvern, Celene

Do you have this information?

Posts: 2938 · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:56 pm

zhowar wrote:

Do you have this information?

No, I don't, and would love to check it out, if you'd be so kind to post it? Very Happy

Posts: 943 · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:34 am

Sure...

Mini Figs WORLD OF GREYHAWK Approved and authorized by TSR
from the TSR Dungeon Hobby Shop March 1981 catalog

WOG1-45 - $3.98

WOG01 Amazon Infantry (6) swords, flails – Hardby (Wild Coast)
WOG02 Amazon Infantry (6) axes, spears, bow, polearm - Hardby (Wild Coast)
WOG03 Amazon Cavalry (3) spears, bow - Hardby (Wild Coast)
WOG04 Amazon Cavalry (3) swords, axe - Hardby (Wild Coast)
WOG05 Berserker Mercenaries (6) swords, spears, javelins – Wild Coast/Pomarj
WOG06 Hireling Men-at-Arms (6) axes, spears, bows – Wild Coast petty kingdoms
WOG07 Men-at-Arms of the Watch (6) axes, spears, bows - Greyhawk
WOG08 Infantry of the Guilds (6) spears, crossbows - Greyhawk
WOG09 Cavemen (6) spears, clubs – Cairn Hills
WOG10 Valley Elf Infantry (6) axes, swords – Valley of the Mage
WOG11 Valley Elf Infantry (6) bows, spears – Valley of the Mage
WOG12 Valley Elf King & Guards (6) pole-arms – Valley of the Mage
WOG13 Valley Elf Cavalry (2) lances – Valley of the Mage
WOG14 Valley Elf Cavalry (2) sword, bow – Valley of the Mage
WOG15 Mounted Knights (3) lance, sword, axe - Furyondy
WOG16 Knights on Foot (6) swords, axes, pole-arms – Furyondy
WOG17 Freeholder Infantry (6) spears, bows – Furyondy/Veluna
WOG18 The Steadfast Pike (6) pikes - Veluna
WOG19 Free City Foot (6) spears, swords, bows - Dyvers
WOG20 Zombie & Skeleton Infantry (6) swords, spears - Iuz
WOG21 Zombie & Skeleton Infantry (6) assorted weapons – Iuz
WOG22 Goblin Infantry (6) swords, axes - Iuz
WOG23 Goblin Infantry (6) bows, crossbows, hand catapults - Iuz
WOG24 Goblin Chieftain & Guards (6) spears, pole-arms - Iuz
WOG25 Human Forest Warriors (6) swords, axes, spear, pole-arm – Celene/Ulek
WOG26 Human Forest Warriors (6) bows, crossbows, slings - Celene/Ulek
WOG27 Mounted Knights (3) lance, axe, sword – Veluna/Verbobonc
WOG28 Heavy Missile Infantry (6) bows, crossbows – Furyondy/Veluna/Shield Lands
WOG29 Light Missile Infantry (6) bows, crossbows, slings – Feryondy[sic]/Veluna/Shield Lands
WOG30 Mounted Knights (3) lance, mace, sword – Shield Lands
WOG31 Knights on Foot (6) swords, axes, pole-arms – Shield Lands
WOG32 Freeholder Infantry (6) spears, bows – Shield Lands
WOG33 Esquire (Medium) Horse (3) lance, sword, axe - Furyondy/Veluna/Shield Lands
WOG34 Brethren Foot Guards (4) spears – Scarlet Brotherhood
WOG35 Hierarch, Headsman, Amazon Captive on Torture Stake – Horned Society
WOG36 Ice or Snow Barbarian Foot (6) swords, bows – Lands of Snow & Ice Barbarians
WOG37 Ice or Snow Barbarian Foot (6) axes, spears - Lands of Snow & Ice Barbarians
WOG38 Ice or Snow Barbarian Cavalry (3) spears - Lands of Snow & Ice Barbarians
WOG39 Ice or Snow Barbarian Cavalry (3) spears, scything axe - Lands of Snow & Ice Barbarians
WOG40 Mounted Knights (3) lance, mace, sword – Bandit Kingdoms
WOG41 Brigand Infantry (6) swords, spears, bows – Celene/Ulek/Cairn Hills
WOG42 Halfling Fighters (6) swords, axes, spear, bow -Celene/Ulek/Cairn Hills
WOG43 Wandering Adventurers, magic user, cleric, bard, halfling thief [no territory given for WOG43-48]
WOG44 Heroic Mercenary Foot (5) axes, spear, bow
WOG45 Heroic Mercenary Foot (5) swords

WOG46-56 - $4.98

WOG46 Heroic Mercenary Cavalry (2) swords
WOG47 Heroic Mercenary Cavalry (2) short sword, spear
WOG48 Heroic Mercenary Cavalry (2) morning star, bow

WOG49 Elite Death-Guard Cavalry (2) lances – Horned Society
WOG50 Overking's Heavy Guard Cavalry (2) lances – Great Kingdom
WOG51 Overking's Heavy Guard Cavalry (2) axe, sword – Great Kingdom
WOG52 Overking's Heavy Guard Foot (6) spears, axe, blow-pipe – Great Kingdom
WOG53 Overking's Heavy Guard Foot (6) pole-arms, swords – Great Kingdom
WOG54 Wyvern (1) - Celene
WOG55 Harginn Elemental Grue - Elemental of Plain of Fire -(conjured by) Iuz
WOG56 Iuz Enthroned & Evil Halflings (4) - evil demi-god & minions - Iuz

WOG57-59 - $5.98

WOG57 Dragonnel & Lancer (1) - Pomarj
WOG58 Dragonnel & Archer (1) - Pomarj
WOG59 Dragonnel & Pole-axeman (1) - Pomarj

WOG60 - $7.98

WOG60 Magnus Dragonnel (1) - Pomarj

WOG61-72 - not listed in this catalog
WOG61 Dragonnettes (2)
WOG62 Giant Spider, Rat, Beetle
WOG63 Flying Dinosaur, Armored Dinosaur
WOG64 Aquatic Dragonnel (1)
WOG65 Monster Stoppers: Catapult and Dart Thrower
WOG66 Unicorn, Beasts and Hounds
WOG67 Elite Death Guard Cavalry, axe, sword
WOG68 Orcs, sword, pole-arms, bows
WOG69 Gnolls, swords, pole-arms, bows
WOG70 Half-Orcs, various weapons
WOG71 Mounted Men-at-Arms of the Watch
WOG72 Rovers of the Barrens

(Note: actual 1981 catalog entries do not list # of figures)

Posts: 2338 · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:40 pm

Here's an interesting one I stumbled upon looking for the elusive black Gateway to Adventure catalog:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280172183603

Posts: 943 · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:54 pm

Nice find. That's one obscure oddity.

Here's an image for posterity (once the auction disappears):

From the auction listing: "THIS IS THE TH&C. TOYS, HOBBIES, & CRAFTS. 1981 DIRECTORY ISSUE. BOOK HAS 224 PAGES."

This shows the level of influence that D&D had reached by 1981.

Posts: 2938 · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:19 pm

While rummaging around in a store yesterday, I found a copy of the 1976 four-page newspaper ad/article by Steve Jackson of Games Workshop yesterday about D&D (article's back in my hotel, so I'll have to get the title later; it has a micro-module with a map of goblin caves or mines or somesuch, an example of play, lists both Chainmail and Greyhawk as new supplements to the game, etc.). I thought we had discussed this thing before (and I recognized it from the discussion), but I wasn't able to find any reference to it, other than a pointer on ToT to an auction that's gone from eBay:

tfm on ToT wrote:

10-6-07 ebay Poor $167.66 (with GW ad/Ground Goblin insert)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270172835907&s sPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017

Anyone recall more about where this thing was discussed?

Posts: 2338 · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:12 pm

I remember discussing it here and on the Tome - if its the insert that I am thinking of. I believe its a UK insert that shows up with some 4th print white box sets which seems a bit strange to find it in a US store.

The insert was originally published in an issue of Games & Puzzles (UK) magazine.

Posts: 2938 · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:43 pm

David pointed me to this thread on ToT http://www.tomeoftreasures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2894 and it does discuss the ad/article in question.

However, what I have is undated and is clearly marked as "Reprinted by permission of Games & Puzzles, (c) Edu-Games UK Ltd 1976. (Ed Note: PCC is happy to recommend Games & Puzzles to our readers)." It's also four pages long, printed on newspaper formatted to a weekend magazine insert size, and is clearly torn from the mag, since there are remnants of another page there (which doesn't apppear to contain D&D game info on it); the pages represented/pulled from PCC are 19-22 inclusive. The article also appears to be in American vs. UK English. I have no idea what PCC stands for, but it seems to account for another, local-US instance of this ad/article, at least.

I'll post a scan sometime later, after I return from CA.

Posts: 943 · Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:50 am

Last October I transcribed the text of the Dungeon Key and Example of Play (partial) using the scan of page 4 posted on Tome of Treasures. I posted this in the Classic Forum on Dragonsfoot:

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25633

grodog, if you can supply the first part of the Example of Play, I'll add it to what I posted over there.

grodog wrote:

I have no idea what PCC stands for, but it seems to account for another, local-US instance of this ad/article, at least.

People's Computer Company?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Computer_Company

http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/peoples-computer/index .html

The second site is linked from the wikipedia page. It has covers scans (and some articles) from their newsletter, which looks like a newspaper in some editions. If you click on the Nov-Dec 1978, there's a scanned 3-page article on Runequest.

http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/peoples-computer/peopl es-1978-nov-dec/runequest.html

....Continuing the search...I think this is it:

http://www.svipx.com/pcc/gameslist.html

Quote:

V5N2 September 1976

* P. 02 Star Trek (six pages of stuff sent by readers, edited by Mellow Flash)
* P. 08 But It's Fun, But It's Educational: Computer Games in the Classroom by Joanne Koltnow Verplank
* P. 16 PLANETS by Mac Oglesby. BASIC listing and sample run.
* P. 18 Journey to the Center of the Earth by Andrew A. Aronson. BASIC listing and sample run.
* P. 20 Dungeons & Dragons by Steve Jackson. Description, information, ...
* P. 30 Crossword Puzzle by Frank Armbruster
* P. 31 Hats by Frank Armbruster. BASIC listing and sample run.

This is from an index Bob Albrecht (PCC founder) created with the gaming contents of the early PCC issues. Other issues of possible interest to D&D/RPG collectors:

Quote:

V4N4 January 1976
* P. 25 Flying Buffalo by Rick Loomis. Descriptions of play-by-mail games and tabletop games such as Dungeons & Dragons

V4N5 March-April 1976
* P. 11 Good Gaming. Descriptions of role-playing and board games: Dungeons & Dragons, Tunnels & Trolls, Stellar Conquest, and Empire of the Petal Throne

This page on the same site has similar information, plus discussing Dave Arneson:

http://www.svipx.com/pcc/links.html

Quote:

The dragon notes: My good friend Dave Arneson is the creator of Dungeons & Dragons. Check out his web site: The world of Blackmoor & Dave Arneson creator of D&D, http://castleblackmoor.com/

Also of interest:
"Good Gaming!," a survey article about role-playing games, including D&D, appeared in PCC V4N5 Mar-Apr 1976. The 3-page article "Dungeons & Dragons" by Steve Jackson was reprinted by permission in PCC V5N2 Sep-Oct 1976.

The last time I talked to Dave, he was teaching computer game design in...

Amazing what's out there on the internet, just waiting to be found...in a perfect world, an index of every periodical ever published would be posted somewhere on the web.

Posts: 2938 · Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:44 am

I think that you've found the source, Zach, since one of the pages has what looks like an old (Basic?) computer program on it, too! Excellent sleuthing! Very Happy

Posts: 710 · Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:49 am

zhowar wrote:

Nice find. That's one obscure oddity.

Here's an image for posterity (once the auction disappears):

From the auction listing: "THIS IS THE TH&C. TOYS, HOBBIES, & CRAFTS. 1981 DIRECTORY ISSUE. BOOK HAS 224 PAGES."

This shows the level of influence that D&D had reached by 1981.

And the fact that, in 1981, TSR had some money so spend in promotion/advertising. I collect Model Retailer and since 1982 there are no more TSR ads in alla the issues I own (the covers are not for free...).