Ivid the Undying pictures

Posts: 100 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:13 am

Allan -- That seems a little odd . . . . TSR management at that time was REALLY anal about final covers following preliminary designs. (Robh Ruppel nearly got fired for changing a painting design.) If the module hit the "review" stage with the cover that is seen, I very much doubt that there would have been any intent to go with a final cover that looked a lot different. Plus, Mark Nelson wasn't one of the artists that TSR used to do their catalog "comps" or prelims, generally speaking. So if the image picture on the module IS by Mark Nelson, then it's almost certainly a finished, final painting for which TSR shelled out a decent chunk of change, as Mark was a freelancer, not a staff artist. I've emailed Jeff already to ask if he knew anything about the module/cover painting, though, so if his "Ancient Dead" painting was actually supposed to be used for the Greyhawk piece, I imagine that he'll know and pass the info along to me. Pat

Posts: 100 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:20 pm

OK, guys, some info: The painting shown in the Ivid scan IS a painting by Mark Nelson. However, that painting was originally created as an interior illustration for Dragon magazine, NOT for a module cover. Since Mark is a freelancer, TSR would have purchased ONLY the rights to reproduce that painting once, in the magazine -- so they could NOT have planned to issue "Ivid" with that cover art unless they planned to pay Mark Nelson again, and he never heard anything about it. Could TSR have mocked up the Nelson piece just for internal use? Sure . . . . but it seems unlikely to me that they would have NO plans for a cover painting by the time the module reached this stage. (Normally, planned modules have their own mockups done for the yearly TSR catalog, WAYY before the module is completed.) Guess this doesn't really answer any questions, but does provide some info . . . . Pat

Posts: 541 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:26 pm

Wow Pat, great detective work on your part for all the information pertaining to this item. Now only if Rob can chime in.........

Posts: 100 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:28 pm

Mark did just email me again to mention that TSR DID have a habit of reusing work without paying the artist -- he said it had never happened to him before, but that it was a habit of theirs . . . . so it could be that they intended to use the Nelson cover after all. Pat

Posts: 541 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:33 pm

Not sure if anyone agrees with me, but I think the Easley painting that grodog showed would have been a better cover for Ivid. I just don't like that Nelson painting.

Posts: 297 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:32 pm

I DEFINITELY agree. That Easley Image ROCKS! I would definitely choose that one (nothing against the other artist). I'm starting to think Rob got snookered on this... but I'll be happy if it turns out to be legit!

Posts: 541 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:53 pm

Dave knows Rob pretty well and it was him who broke this news to us so perhaps Dave can chime in and let us know if Rob has given him further information, etc.

Posts: 2910 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:34 pm

I don't know the origin for where the idea that the Easley piece was supposed to be the Ivid cover; perhaps Paul Stormberg knows, since he's been on Greytalk longer than I have..... EDIT: additional info from Rob Douglas, another long-time GREYtalk member:

Quote:

On Thursday, Mar 13, 2003, at 00:48 US/Eastern, Allan T. Grohe Jr. wrote: > Issak, Marc--- > > Is this the image you're thinking of? > http://lair2000.net/f-dl/easley03.jpg > > Allan I don't know if that is what he was thinking of, but that is the cover to "Van Richten's Guide to the Ancient Dead" - I really like it though. ROB

TSR was well-entrenched in its practice of recycling art during the 2e timeperiod, so VRGttAD's cover may not have any bearing on whether the cover would have been reused for Ivid.

Posts: 191 · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:04 pm

grodog wrote:

TSR was well-entrenched in its practice of recycling art during the 2e timeperiod, so VRGttAD's cover may not have any bearing on whether the cover would have been reused for Ivid.

TSR certainly recycled art during that time period (my favorite is the black-and-white drawing of Drelzna from S4 appearing in the 2e PHB), but would they have released two supplements with the same cover art? That seems a little strange even for TSR. Here's a link to VRGTTAD.

Posts: 76 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:43 am

Something that Rob Placer mentioned which I did not include in the original post was that he received the Ivid book as a gift. I didn't think it was relevant to mention, but since people are questioning the validity, you can at least know that the fellow that gave it to him would not make a forgery and give it away. I should also point out that the item is not shrinkwrapped, if it was he could not know it was perfect bound. Now I took into consideration that he might not know what he is talking about or that he was lying. Both are highly implausible, but not impossible. But I don't live in New Jersey. If any acaeum member actually visits his store and sees it, or if he responds to email, than that would settle it for certain.

Posts: 541 · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:55 am

Quote:

Something that Rob Placer mentioned which I did not include in the original post was that he received the Ivid book as a gift.

Hi Dave, you should have told us that earlier. It is very relevant information. Can you tell us more about the person who gave it to Rob? Was he a ex tsr employee or just your standard joe? Perhaps this man made the item as a gift for Rob?

Posts: 1193 · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 1:26 am

IIRC, Sean Reynolds on the Greytalk list said he had never heard of this item, and that it was possibly a mock-up with back and front cover art, but the interior booklet was another item completely. He said this was common practice at TSR to shrinkwrap items with mock covers and fake interiors for display at conventions to create interest in upcoming products that had yet to be published. I believe grodog can confirm and/or correct what I recall here.

Posts: 2910 · Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:17 am

That's the gist of it, yes, dathon.